Ranking 'The Epics'

[Crumbso]

I thought this would be interesting. They're a little hard to define but AB's epic songs but, seeing as we now have AB's longest 'epic' song, I thought I'd like to see where we rank them in relation to each other. Here is the list of 'epics' as I would define them:

• Blackbird

• Words Darker than Their Wings

• Cry of Achilles

• Fortress

• This Side of Fate

• The Last Hero

• Dying Light

• Fable of the Silent Son

If you could rank them in order of best to worst, where would you place each one? Also, give us your thoughts on what makes a good or bad AB 'epic'.

[CrowsOnAWire]

Funny, I had the exact same idea for a thread!

However, there are a couple of "epics" that you've missed out. The most obvious being Fortress! I'd also say Calm The Fire could be considered an epic if we are including songs such as WDTTW.

I'd maybe also include Pawns & Kings.

[Crumbso]

Funny, I had the exact same idea for a thread!

However, there are a couple of "epics" that you've missed out. The most obvious being Fortress! I'd also say Calm The Fire could be considered an epic if we are including songs such as WDTTW.

I'd maybe also include Pawns & Kings.

How in the hell I missed out Fortress, I'll never know.

Wasn't sure about some of them. I include WDtTW mainly because of the feel of it. I did debate inlcuding The End is Here also.

I'd say, if you think a song is an 'Epic' then just include it in your list.

[Buffon]

My ranking from best to worst, with spaces to indicate the "tiers" for lack of a better word:

- Blackbird
- Fortress
- Cry of Achilles

- Words Darker than Their Wings
- Fable of the Silent Son
- The Last Hero

- Dying Light
- This Side of Fate

Criteria:

Most important: the song should hold your attention throughout its duration, which is invariably much longer than the typical track, without falling into what I call the modern-day Iron Maiden and Metallica trope of churning out 7-minute songs that run out of steam and start repeating themselves halfway through.

For Alter Bridge, this typically means you need the basics of a good AB song: an interesting riff / melody, good hooks, and good solos, coupled with the X-factor that makes the song an "epic": something new it brings to the table that the more straightforward tracks don't have. That's where the ones at the top of my list stand out: more than enough variety in there to justify the lengths, including probably the three best extended instrumental sections in any Alter Bridge songs (the dual / quadruple solos in Blackbird and Fortress, and the intro + the bass-heavy breakdown in Achilles). Words doesn't have the instrumentals but mixes it up otherwise with the brilliant dual vocals and the soaring outro, and doing away with a second verse altogether. Fable has a whole lot of interesting stuff going on and may well climb up the list in time.

And it's where the bottom two in particular lose me. I struggle to make it through all of This Side of Fate without getting bored, it just feels like a little too much of the same thing. Also applies to a few of the other recent songs not on this list that clock in around 6 minutes: Calm the Fire, Cradle to the Grave come to mind. By the third chorus I'm just wishing they'd cut the song short by a minute or so.

Lastly, at the risk of flogging a dead horse... the longer a song runs, the more critical it is that it actually sounds pleasant to listen to and doesn't exhaust your ears. Even the good songs on the Fortress through WTS albums just are wayyy too loud and downright tiring to listen to on the records. The live versions are infinitely better.

[AHart96]

Cry of Achilles
Blackbird

Calm the Fire
Words Darker Than Their Wings
Fortress

Fable of the Silent Son
Walking on the Sky
The Last Hero

Dying Light
This Side of Fate

Cradle to the Grave

[Buffon]

Double-post: just read my last one back and realized I'm still referring to Calm the Fire as a "recent" song when it'll be 10 next year. Time flies, huh

[Crumbso]

Great idea with the tiers, as it's so hard to truly put a song at a specific number sometimes. I would go:

God tier
Fable of the Silent Son (currently my favourite but only time will tell - it's too shiny and new to really know)
Cry of Achilles
Blackbird
Words Darker than Their Wings

Great tier
Fortress
Dying Light

Yeh, s'pretty good tier
The Last Hero
This Side of Fate

To add to your excellent explanation, Buffon, I think that a great AB epic has to really have that genuine emotional resonance and catharsis to really make it. I have to feel something and be taken somewhere. As fantastic as Fortress and Dying Light are (and I really do love listening to them) they don't make the hairs on my neck stand up every time.

The TLH epics are still good songs also, but they seem to just stuff so many layers and ideas into them that I find them a little exhausting to listen to. The production doesn't help in that regard either. The subject matter for them is a little remote for me as well.

[Ubik]

My complex and well thought out opinion is probably

Fortress
Cry of Achilles
Blackbird
~the rest~
(Not including Words or Dying Light)

[Buffon]

To add to your excellent explanation, Buffon, I think that a great AB epic has to really have that genuine emotional resonance and catharsis to really make it. I have to feel something and be taken somewhere. As fantastic as Fortress and Dying Light are (and I really do love listening to them) they don't make the hairs on my neck stand up every time.

Completely agree with that.

Personally I've always had that connection with Fortress which I think is just an excellent song all around. Always felt it mixes up the established AB songwriting "formula" in more than one way, while still sounding cohesive as a whole: the lyrics are some of AB's strongest and the different sections of the song (the first two verses, then the first bridge leading into the instrumental section, then the "in the end, too far gone" bit that ties everything out) are not only excellent on their own but work together to tell a good story. And I just love the middle section and solos, reminds me of vintage Metallica / Maiden (thinking of Sanitarium or Fear of the Dark here - not the newer stuff I was whining about earlier ).

Last Hero is a similar song to Fortress in many ways and has a lot of individual sections that I really like: the main riff is amazing, the chorus is a standout in the discography, and the solos (especially the first one from Myles) rock too. But taken as a whole, it doesn't quite fit together as well. I think the breakdown right after the Myles solo is where it loses me: not too big on that one musically (the riff and drums are among the most monotonous they've done), and it all sounds extremely... noisy.

And Dying Light is a particularly annoying example to me of their tendency to overdo the layering on newer albums. That vocal melody in the verse was immediately gripping the first time I heard it, and Myles's voice sounded amazing... for the first two lines, before he started singing on top of himself 3X

[Crumbso]

My complex and well thought out opinion is probably

Fortress
Cry of Achilles
Blackbird
~the rest~
(Not including Words or Dying Light)

Woah, woah, woah! Slow down there egghead. I didn't ask for a dissertation.

[Dan Dando]

Cool topic, Crumbso.

Even though I’d probably put Blackbird first, I feel like I listen to it a lot less than most of the other songs listed. There’s such a weight (if that’s the right word) to Blackbird that isn’t really there for some of the others. Okay, enough rambling, let’s give it a go…

Blackbird

Words Darker Than Their Wings

Fortress

Cry of Achilles

This Side of Fate

Fable of the Silent Son

Dying Light

The Last Hero

[maximzub]

This is my objective ranking. (My subjective ranking would have Pawns & Kings on top followed by Cry Of Achilles and then the rest the same as the objective ranking.)

1. Blackbird
2. Cry Of Achilles
3. Words Darker Than Their Wings
4. Pawns & Kings
5. The Last Hero
6. Show Me A Sign
7. Fortress
<large gap>
8. This Side Of Fate
9. Dying Light
10. Fable Of The Silent Son

In my opinion, Show Me A Sign and Pawns & Kings should be on this list.

[Ubik]

My complex and well thought out opinion is probably

Fortress
Cry of Achilles
Blackbird
~the rest~
(Not including Words or Dying Light)

Woah, woah, woah! Slow down there egghead. I didn't ask for a dissertation.

I know, I know, I gotta stop with overwriting.

(Okay so to develop a little , the rest have their own strengths and weaknesses that I can prefer one over the other on any day depending on mood, whereas the top 3 are pretty set in stone. Sometimes I'll be really into the Myles solo in This Side of Fate that's so good you can dance to it, other times I might want that weight in The Last Hero.)

[gbruin]

The correct ranking is...

Blackbird
Cry of Achilles
Fortress
Dying Light
This Side of Fate
Fable of the Silent Son
Words Darker than Their Wings
The Last Hero

Fable may move up in a month or two. I didn't want to overrank it b/c it's new.

[scarecrow]

Respectfully slotting in 'Forever Falling' (which I adore and think is absolutely epic) over 'Dying Light' (a song I rarely revisit). Also kind of think 'Pawns & Kings' deserves the nod here over 'Fable' but based on the length, I understand. 'Pawns' would be a top 4 'epic' for me.

8. This Side Of Fate
7. Fable Of The Silent Son
6. The Last Hero
5. Fortress
4. Cry Of Achilles
3. Forever Falling
2. Words Darker Than Their Wings
1. Blackbird

Clear delineation between the top 4 and bottom 4 for me. 5-8 are not favorites.

[SHEAKENBAKEN]

1. Blackbird
2. Fortress
3. Cry of Achilles
4. This Side of Fate
5. The Last Hero
6. Fable of The Silent Son: The only thing I might change about this song is during the solo breakdown I'd add another solo each or extend their solo's by 15-30 seconds.
7. Pawns & Kings: I wish the guitar solos were longer to reach about 30 seconds each to improve the song.
8. Words Darker Than Their Wings
9. Sin After Sin: While I can see why people might not consider this track to fit the epic title, I included it because it's their 6th longest song, and I personally love the vibe/atmosphere of it. The only thing that could have truly cemented this track as 100% epic status IMO would be a 30 seconds long guitar solo from both Mark and Myles like the other epics.
10. Dying Light: This track was the closest thing to an epic we got on Walk The Sky, and it has all the trademarks of an epic but I feel like the track should have been extended by another minute at least to truly warrant the epic title. With maybe an extended heavier section in the bridge and a longer Myles solo.

[Whitebird]

Guys... How are Walking on the Sky, Calm The Fire, Sin After Sin, Show Me a Sign or Forever Falling considered as epic songs? Just because they're like +5 min songs? I mean Idk...

[maximzub]

Guys... How are Walking on the Sky, Calm The Fire, Sin After Sin, Show Me a Sign or Forever Falling considered as epic songs? Just because they're like +5 min songs? I mean Idk...

I'd say Show Me A Sign fits that mold more than the rest do. Walking On The Sky - no way. Calm The Fire - the intro is epic, but the rest of the song is your average Alter Bridge radio track. Still a 10/10 in my book, but I wouldn't consider it one of the epics. Sin After Sin could have been an epic if it had a better chorus and actual guitar solos. Forever Falling - I don't even wanna talk about that song because it's just so boring and sounds stitched together.

[scarecrow]

Guys... How are Walking on the Sky, Calm The Fire, Sin After Sin, Show Me a Sign or Forever Falling considered as epic songs? Just because they're like +5 min songs? I mean Idk...

i just really love forever falling haha

[Arctic]

Blackbird
Fortress
Cry Of Achilles
Words Darker Than Their Wings
Fable Of the Silent Son
The Last Hero
This Side Of Fate

I don’t really consider Dying Light an epic, it’s a really good song, but nothing stands out to put it in the same breath as the others. I know Words is borderline, but the unique structure, both guys trading vocals with the different guitar parts and the insane vocals put it on the list for me. It’s a bit short but still. I think Slip could almost be considered one as well, but it’s even shorter than words, so I can’t do it.