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I totally get where you guys are coming from though - you love the old sound, you think the band was better then, and you want them to return to that sound and be the best they can be. And that's fine - but what "sounds good" and which songs are "good" and which ones "suck" isn't a black and white, factual, provable thing, it's entirely based on the listener's preference and opinion. Even if it's 99% of the fanbase's opinion, it's still opinion. And I've always said this - it's the band's job to do what they want to do, as artists, put out what they want to put out, what makes them happy and fulfilled as artists. That's what being an artist is. And it's the fan's job to listen to it and decide if they like it, if they don't, if they want to stick around and listen to more, or if they want to move on. If the band simply does whatever the fans tell them to do, they've become nothing more than puppets and the fans have now become their boss. And I don't think that's right, I think the band should have the freedom to do what they want to do, release what they want to release, in the way they want to do it, because they're the artist. If you've been criticizing their live sound for 10+ years and you're still coming back for more, I think that's on you. Especially in this increasingly digital world, there are SO many choices out there for your musical attention, be they national artists or local bands (for instance, I was just digging through some old CDs the other day and found an old local Minneapolis band called Down and Above that I had forgotten about, and found some songs from the mid-2000s that are SO good, they've been stuck in my head for the last 3 days - haha). I feel like if you don't dig the band's sound, that's your right, but it's not your right to tell them to be different, because this is who they are and this is their artistic vision they want to put out. It's up to you whether to listen to it or go find one of a billion other bands out there to listen to.

No one can argue this explanation about fandom, taste, like or dislike. However, it is OK too, and a personal choice, to critisize the band and as well keep interested and engaged. No one have to tell me to move on to other bands, just for stating that in my opinion this great great great band regretfully is not using its full potential to make this great great music they did 4 albums long. It made them special.

For me it is a quote from the band themselves that covers it all : “We could be so much more than we are”

Still love them though and keep staying around here for that reason if that’s OK with you.

TenaciousBe wrote:And I've always said this - it's the band's job to do what they want to do, as artists, put out what they want to put out, what makes them happy and fulfilled as artists.

That would normally be true, but definitely not for AB. I've seen so many interviews with them saying 'we're making a couple of those epic pieces this time, because our fans seem to enjoy it', 'we couldn't have made an entirely keyboard-based album (WTS) because our fans would kill us', 'as soon as we had Isolation, we could stop chasing that single'. They cater so much for what fans and industry want. I don't give them any criticism for the latter, because you need to stay relevant but please don't say that they do anything they want. Steven Wilson, Bring Me the Horizon, Opeth - those bands don't give a damn about what their fans want and they keep changing the sound and their producers - that's how you develop as an artist.

To be honest, I see both TLH and WTS as them searching for their next direction. They tried to push the prog and unusual structures in TLH with limited success and then tried to scale back to innovate within a more traditional song-structure in WTS. However, both of those albums were extremely dense in terms of arrangements and overdubs.

One thing I quite like about Last Rites is that it's a fairly simple arrangement. It lacks in terms of mood changes or instrumental sections but there is a focus on the riff and one or two hooks. It's heading towards something I could very much dig if they took a less-is-more approach for future material. The approach from ODR to TLH has been to go more more more each album and eventually it brings diminishing returns. This could be promising.

In terms of criticising the band, I feel this is the place where honesty is best expressed. As long as we understand that we are not owed anything by the guys and they are free to explore their art however they please.

I don't necessarily think they should drop Elvis but they all could benefit from experimenting a bit more with the overall sound of the instruments and/or recording methods, just to shake it up and keep them interested or give them a new perspective. It's impossible for a band to have every album be better than the last and AB's batting average is pretty damn high. TLH was a misstep for me but loads of people love it so hey-ho.

Silvercreed wrote:

nagpo wrote:You guys do bring up some interesting points. I do respect the band - look at what they did. They went into MASSIVE debt so they could be their own band. They put the work in. But I'm not so musically inclined to be able to tell the differences in "mixes" and such, but according to you guys elvis is quite a detriment to the band. So it's quite sad to hear them refer to him as the fifth member. They need a producer that tells them "Hey, this song sucks." And I don't think they have someone to keep them in check, quality wise.

I think it is quite the opposite. If I'm not mistaken, Myles mentioned that one thing they like about Elvis is that he is honest. When something they do is not right, he tells them right away. And I agree is a positive thing.
Perhaps their mistake is to give full control and to trust him too much, blindly or not.

Correct. As far as I've seen, he is a fine producer for them. His mixes on the other hand, ehhhh......

Dolo wrote:

TenaciousBe wrote:And I've always said this - it's the band's job to do what they want to do, as artists, put out what they want to put out, what makes them happy and fulfilled as artists.

That would normally be true, but definitely not for AB. I've seen so many interviews with them saying 'we're making a couple of those epic pieces this time, because our fans seem to enjoy it', 'we couldn't have made an entirely keyboard-based album (WTS) because our fans would kill us', 'as soon as we had Isolation, we could stop chasing that single'. They cater so much for what fans and industry want. I don't give them any criticism for the latter, because you need to stay relevant but please don't say that they do anything they want. Steven Wilson, Bring Me the Horizon, Opeth - those bands don't give a damn about what their fans want and they keep changing the sound and their producers - that's how you develop as an artist.

If that's the case, maybe they should move more in that direction, do more of what they want to do and less of trying to keep the fans happy. Seems like experimenting with the synth stuff was something most of the fans liked anyway, so all parties would be happy!

And my apologies here if anything I've said recently seemed standoffish or anything like that, certainly not trying to be! Just discussing.

Not sure if this has been posted. Myles doing Native Son acoustically:

CrowsOnAWire wrote:Not sure if this has been posted. Myles doing Native Son acoustically:

God, he sounds good here. I was so excited for Myles' solo album, and it wasn't disappointing, but it was different - I wasn't expecting something that sounded country-ish, I was looking for an album that sounded like this, like Myles and his acoustic and that's it. He sounds SO good when he strips it down like this, and a full album of this sound would be just lights out.

There's the voice.

He's sounding nice and well rested these days. It was a nice strong voice on Last Rites as well.

Crumbso wrote:He's sounding nice and well rested these days. It was a nice strong voice on Last Rites as well.

It's a shame it wasn't saved for a better song amirite??

I can't say I've ever felt underwhelmed by WTS, or TLH for that matter, as full albums. Maybe the odd song here or there, or the overall "loudness wars" sounds of them, but otherwise... like, the other night, I was messing with my record player and running a few vinyl albums while working in the living room, and I played most of Blackbird. Now, this has been one of my top albums since the day it was released in 2007, there's not a skippable moment on that whole album. But I was listening to it, and I was like, "you know, WTS isn't really THAT different from this." So I went back and gave WTS a fresh re-listen later on, and I agree with myself - that album is solid, top to bottom, inside and out. I think BB feels like it's so much more "classic" because it's been around longer, and I know the songs a little better because of it, but I'd put the quality of the songwriting on those two albums right up there on that same level. At least to my ears.

Why there isn't Take the crown ?!

TenaciousBe wrote:I can't say I've ever felt underwhelmed by WTS, or TLH for that matter, as full albums. Maybe the odd song here or there, or the overall "loudness wars" sounds of them, but otherwise... like, the other night, I was messing with my record player and running a few vinyl albums while working in the living room, and I played most of Blackbird. Now, this has been one of my top albums since the day it was released in 2007, there's not a skippable moment on that whole album. But I was listening to it, and I was like, "you know, WTS isn't really THAT different from this." So I went back and gave WTS a fresh re-listen later on, and I agree with myself - that album is solid, top to bottom, inside and out. I think BB feels like it's so much more "classic" because it's been around longer, and I know the songs a little better because of it, but I'd put the quality of the songwriting on those two albums right up there on that same level. At least to my ears.

Maybe WTS also doesn't have that real centrepiece moment like BB has the song Blackbird? I agree that WTS is far stronger than people give it credit for but it might take some getting used to for some like ABIII did, if I remember correctly. Also, the switch from increasingly long songs with multiple parts back to the shorter song structure might have been jarring for some, especially as TLH was super-dense.

I think most AB albums are over-long but WTS only has a few songs that I skip over and, although it's a loud mix, it's got a fairly pleasantly "round" sound to it. TLH has quite a few that I skip, it just wasn't my cup of tea and I find it fatiguing to listen all the way through.

Great Album!

AB4Lyfe wrote:

UninvitedZero wrote:I'm so pumped just for Last Rites. AB all cooped up during quarantine and feeling aggressive sounds like something killer is in store for November!

just don’t give us Losing Patience 2.0 and we’ll be fine.

What's the deal? That's a kick ass song.

I'm just coming back to this thread to say confirm again that, after listening to it for a few months, I think Last Rites is a cool song. I really like it.

I haven't listened to it in a minute since it came out. It's definitely a cool tune!

One thing that I haven't seen being discussed in this thread:

Which live versions of these songs were used?

I believe it's possible to figure out with some analysis of fan recordings of the songs. However, that would take a long time to do alone. Does anybody want to help finding this out?

maximzub wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:46 am One thing that I haven't seen being discussed in this thread:

Which live versions of these songs were used?

I believe it's possible to figure out with some analysis of fan recordings of the songs. However, that would take a long time to do alone. Does anybody want to help finding this out?

Yes, I just synced Native Son to its original venue fan video. Enjoy!