TheAlterBridgeNation.com

I don't know why they do that to themselves, again and again

Maybe because Elvis still thinks that Loudness War is still a thing in 2020.

What happened to the Alter Bridge that made ODR, blackbird, and ABIII?

Well, this basically states my feelings too. Would like to extend that though to Fortress. What the hell happened to that sound that made them big ? And why did they depart from writing and performing the music that got them their fanbase in the first place ? TLH and WTS makes you listen to a total different band, and it is not like they became better or remained as exclusive as they were. Such a shame and waste of talent. If they kept writing like those first 4 albums.............damn, they could have become so epic.

Also, regarding those live tracks...... I know we've bitched about it numerous times, but I still don't get why they mix live guitars like that. Mark's tracks that are panned right, are quiet and muddy as hell. Listen to Pay No Mind - this song has a cool, neat, verse riff but I can't hear shit in the live version. Myles' guitar is in turn too high, why? He does not do many leads. And Dying Light - has Mark become too lazy to get clean sound for clean parts on the album? I would understand it if a small, beginner band would do that - not enough gear to get proper sound, but a famous, Grammy-winning guitar player from a band that sells out arenas?
Does Elvis turn also their live stuff into crap or is the sound guy responsible?

They've never been a good live band. Mark isn't tight at all, his tones are awful, the PA is way too loud, and Myles always cheats vocally to "preserve" his voice. Most of the time, they're decent performers, and they're a hard working band, which I'll always respect. But they don't have that extra "X factor" that is necessary to become a festival headliner.

Anyway, for me, they're mostly a studio band: they're great studio musicians who create very good music, but can't bother to make it sound good, which I'll never understand. There's a reason Elvis isn't hired by other bands outside of their circle (Slash, Sevendust, Tremonti), but it seems to me that they're in complete denial about his abilities as a producer.

chtimixeur wrote:They've never been a good live band. Mark isn't tight at all, his tones are awful, the PA is way too loud, and Myles always cheats vocally to "preserve" his voice. Most of the time, they're decent performers, and they're a hard working band, which I'll always respect. But they don't have that extra "X factor" that is necessary to become a festival headliner.

Anyway, for me, they're mostly a studio band: they're great studio musicians who create very good music, but can't bother to make it sound good, which I'll never understand. There's a reason Elvis isn't hired by other bands outside of their circle (Slash, Sevendust, Tremonti), but it seems to me that they're in complete denial about his abilities as a producer.

This isn't strictly true. From 04 to 08 they were fantastic. The 08 Brixton/London gig is still in the top 5 gigs I've ever been too. They sounded clear and energetic and Myles truly was amazing live.

They do what they can now with the insane schedules and the far more demanding material but you can see it takes a toll and it does effect their performance.

They don't use overdubs or playback like a lot of other large bands, which gives them more authenticity but also makes them sound more rough. Tag into that the fact that they just do not have their guitar tones on point anymore and Myles getting a bit older and it's going to disappoint some.

I actually stopped going to see them live after 2010 when I think they were at their lowest point in terms of live sound and performance. I came back to see them at the Royal Albert Hall gig to find that they'd solved some issues but others still remained. In terms of performance, that gig was fantastic but the sound in the hall was atrocious. I paid a lot of money for a box seat and the guitars were barely audible.

Mark needs to turn up that mids knob on his amp and dial back the thump. His riffs are a main attraction but they're inaudible because all you get is low end and muffled highs. He needs to cut through way more.

They should separate his stage sound from what goes through the PA, it'll keep him happy with what he hears on stage but give the audience a better experience. Also yeah, the "turn down the guitar volume knob to get a clean sound" technique is a little bullshit at this level of performance. It sounds like ass for the type of cleans Mark is known for.... and they're not a bar band playing blues at the local club.

Dolo wrote:Does Elvis turn also their live stuff into crap or is the sound guy responsible?

It'll be that the guitar tone at the amp is all wrong. If you have a guitar tone with no mids and limited highs there's really not much you can do to put them back in. It's been an issue with Mark's tone for years and it inky gets worse as the size of the venues increases. All the wrong frequencies get amplified by the size of the room.

You can cut or amplify the frequencies that are there but you can't just magically make them exist if they're not. I'm surprised they don't take a clean DI guitar track of the performances that they can re-amp later to make the mix better.

I respectfully disagree about them being "fantastic" in the 2004-2008 days. They already had some tempo issues back then, and Myles has never been a good frontman as far as I'm concerned. He can sing really well when he wants to, but he doesn't have much of a stage presence, and his hand waving in the air looks a bit weird.

They were alright back then, but they've never been one of those bands that elevate their music and turn their songs into "something else" when they're on stage. The crowd never goes wild, and that's probably because the band just plays its songs just like on the record (White Knuckles being one of the rare exceptions).
For years, I've seen the word "epic" being used a lot to describe their music or their performances, and I think there's nothing epic about what they do.
They stick way too much to formulas, both live and in the studio, and IMHO, that's why they've stagnated for so long.
Despite what they're saying, they don't take risks and repeat the same cycle every 3 years.
I don't blame them, since it seems to work business-wise, and after all, that is how they make their living.
But I still think they can do much better, and the first step to achieve that would be to get rid of Elvis and work with someone who has no preconceived ideas about what they're supposed to sound like.

As I said, I still think their music is worth hearing, and I genuinely enjoy 99% of their catalogue. But I know I'll never pay money to see them again, since they absolutely refuse to make any effort to fix some issues that have been discussed here for more than a decade.

Mark needs to tune down his gain level urgently. His sluggish sound drives me crazy. You can be the best guitarist in the world, if you have too much gain on your amp your riffs will sound like shit.

chtimixeur wrote:I respectfully disagree about them being "fantastic" in the 2004-2008 days. They already had some tempo issues back then, and Myles has never been a good frontman as far as I'm concerned. He can sing really well when he wants to, but he doesn't have much of a stage presence, and his hand waving in the air looks a bit weird.

They were alright back then, but they've never been one of those bands that elevate their music and turn their songs into "something else" when they're on stage. The crowd never goes wild, and that's probably because the band just plays its songs just like on the record (White Knuckles being one of the are exceptions).
For years, I've seen the word "epic" being used a lot to describe their music or their performances, and I think there's nothing epic about what they do.

I can see where you're coming from. I dunno about US crowds but back in the day the UK crowds were amazing. Myles crowd-surfed at my first or second AB gig and I was physically in the mosh pits. Even now, UK crowds react well. I was up in the nosebleed seats for their Wembley gig in December last year and I saw two massive circle pits going on during Metalingus.

I loved every second of the gigs I saw in that 04-08 period. Mark was using his Dual Rec/Fender Twin combo in mid size venues and it sounded immense and Myles was at the top of his voice game. To me, it felt you could tell they had something to prove and it was all new and exciting to them. They had to throw off that Creed rep.

I mean, this was my first gig I saw of them at 17 years old:


That shit blew my tits off dude! And then Brixton 08:


Energy, charisma, good guitar tones and a raging crowd. Different times, it was right after that where things kind of tailed off. ABIII wasn't my favourite album and the guys got tired and then splintered off into side projects.

Fortress and WTS are all good with me though. I used to argue about production techniques on here till I was blue in the face when Blackbird and ABIII came out but hey nothing's going to change it now. I adored the sound of ODR but that's so far in the past it's hardly worth it.

I've lost the fanaticism of youth when it comes to AB but I still respect what they do and their material is always cool even if they haven't evolved in the same direction as my own tastes. Seems we're of fairly similar opinions you and I.

Well, I'm still interested in what they do, and I still want them to be great. But I know they won't reach new heights if they keep using the same formulas with Elvis. They've been in a dire need of new blood since Fortress, but they seem unwilling to dive into the unknown.

I genuinely wonder if they've listened to their albums on CD. Most professional musicians say that their music sounds much better in the studio, and a lot of them never listen to their albums once they've recorded it.

About that Buried Alive performance: it's played too fast for my taste, and Myles is talking instead of singing on quite a few lines.
I also think he's never really been a frontman. It's a talent you either have or don't, and as much as he's tried to improve, he's never become a frontman who can naturally command a crowd as he pleases.

I know I've never really been as involved with a fanbase for a band as I have for Alter Bridge, but damn... I've never seen so many fans of a band who continuously, constantly, with every release, find every negative thing they can to complain about. I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. And I'm NOT saying that people should keep negative opinions to themselves or mindlessly praise whatever AB do, because that's not right either. But it's just so jarring that every release sees SUCH an influx of "the mix sucks" and "Tremonti's tone is too muddy" and "Myles doesn't do the right things with his voice" and this and that and the other, time after time after time. You're entitled to that opinion, and you're entitled to voice it, but damn... just makes me wonder why people continue to be a fan of this band if they hate them so much? Nobody's forcing you to keep coming back and listening to their new stuff. You can walk away and listen to other bands that you like better if you want. Life is too short to keep on punishing yourself like that.

Hearing Myles singing Buried Alive in that video really made me miss the way he used to sing.

@TenaciousBe: you must love the Youtube comments, then, since every song of every band is the best ever.
I would love to say that AB's mix is great or that their tones are incredible, because that would mean that they finally fixed things.
I, for one, am not being negative for the sake of being negative, and I don't hate the band whatsoever. I am just frustrated by the fact that nothing ever changes in the AB camp, and that each new release of theirs is plagued by the exact same issues that have been discussed here for 10+ years.

TenaciousBe wrote:I know I've never really been as involved with a fanbase for a band as I have for Alter Bridge, but damn... I've never seen so many fans of a band who continuously, constantly, with every release, find every negative thing they can to complain about. I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. And I'm NOT saying that people should keep negative opinions to themselves or mindlessly praise whatever AB do, because that's not right either. But it's just so jarring that every release sees SUCH an influx of "the mix sucks" and "Tremonti's tone is too muddy" and "Myles doesn't do the right things with his voice" and this and that and the other, time after time after time. You're entitled to that opinion, and you're entitled to voice it, but damn... just makes me wonder why people continue to be a fan of this band if they hate them so much? Nobody's forcing you to keep coming back and listening to their new stuff. You can walk away and listen to other bands that you like better if you want. Life is too short to keep on punishing yourself like that.

I'd flip it around and say that I'm more of a fan than you, because even though I'm not liking what they've been doing recently, I still come back to check up on whether anything changed because I respect the band so much. What I actually don't get are people who say 'Do not like it - do not listen to it' and 'everyone is entitled to their opinion' in the same message. I do check it out because I want to express my opinion, regardless of if it's negative or positive.

Timotheus wrote:Hearing Myles singing Buried Alive in that video really made me miss the way he used to sing.

Tell me about it.. Strangely enough I was watching these exact youtube videos (Brixton 2008) a couple of days ago, and I can't even begin to explain just how much nostalgia I have for the 2007-8 period of Alter Bridge. In my opinion Myles' voice was at its absolute best, and couple that with Mark's guitar tone as well as the superior stage presence and it's just peak AB for me.

I know that artists age, have to adapt, move on creatively etc, it can just be very bittersweet to look back at old performances and yearn for (what you consider to be) their prime era.

You guys do bring up some interesting points. I do respect the band - look at what they did. They went into MASSIVE debt so they could be their own band. They put the work in. But I'm not so musically inclined to be able to tell the differences in "mixes" and such, but according to you guys elvis is quite a detriment to the band. So it's quite sad to hear them refer to him as the fifth member. They need a producer that tells them "Hey, this song sucks." And I don't think they have someone to keep them in check, quality wise.

There seems to be a split in the fanbase when it comes to what they're criticizing them for. A few seems to dislike the technical side and the other, like myself, dislike the lyric and music aspect. And then there's the other half, probably majority, who loves the band regardless.

I liked only about half of the songs on TLH. WTS was really great to me, however. I think that album was inspired. But this new single was so derivative that I wish it didn't exist. They aren't as consistent as they used to be, quality wise. I really wish this latest single was a studio recording of "On My Way Now" So we could tie up that era of AB with a nice bow.

I've only seen YT videos of them live and it does seem rather difficult to hear Myles talk the lyrics instead of singing them. It's not like he's 70 years old.

nagpo wrote:You guys do bring up some interesting points. I do respect the band - look at what they did. They went into MASSIVE debt so they could be their own band. They put the work in. But I'm not so musically inclined to be able to tell the differences in "mixes" and such, but according to you guys elvis is quite a detriment to the band. So it's quite sad to hear them refer to him as the fifth member. They need a producer that tells them "Hey, this song sucks." And I don't think they have someone to keep them in check, quality wise.

There seems to be a split in the fanbase when it comes to what they're criticizing them for. A few seems to dislike the technical side and the other, like myself, dislike the lyric and music aspect. And then there's the other half, probably majority, who loves the band regardless.

I liked only about half of the songs on TLH. WTS was really great to me, however. I think that album was inspired. But this new single was so derivative that I wish it didn't exist. They aren't as consistent as they used to be, quality wise. I really wish this latest single was a studio recording of "On My Way Now" So we could tie up that era of AB with a nice bow.

I've only seen YT videos of them live and it does seem rather difficult to hear Myles talk the lyrics instead of singing them. It's not like he's 70 years old.

I think it is quite the opposite. If I'm not mistaken, Myles mentioned that one thing they like about Elvis is that he is honest. When something they do is not right, he tells them right away. And I agree is a positive thing.
Perhaps their mistake is to give full control and to trust him too much, blindly or not.
I agree with chtimixeur, I also wonder if they really listen to their albums on CD. I wouldn't be surprised if they never did.
Honestly I doubt it but, for example, to see that in none of the albums we can hear the bass lines properly (other than in some moments here and there) it is strange for me to see a bassist accepting this.

Guys, guys...the biggest fan is Kev. Contest over.

^^ Yeah.... No. I've had my thoughts and criticism about AB. I just choose not to express it on this board, because I don't care as much to say it, publicly, and I still like this band a lot.

anguyen92 wrote:^^ Yeah.... No. I've had my thoughts and criticism about AB. I just choose not to express it on this board, because I don't care as much to say it, publicly, and I still like this band a lot.

You don’t have to be so modest, it’s okay. Very few people have been on the same plane as Myles Kennedy.