Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

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BOTTN: Track 04

Poll ended at Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:34 pm

Burn It Down
7
18%
Buried Alive
6
16%
All Hope Is Gone
3
8%
Lover
12
32%
My Champion
3
8%
Godspeed
7
18%
 
Total votes: 38

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Arctic
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Arctic »

I like Godspeed, but it’s the perfect example of a song that should 100% be longer. The solo feels almost pointless even though it sounds great because it’s so short, and the song ends so abruptly that it’s almost annoying. It’s like, wait, it ends here? That’s dumb. There’s no ten seconds of music fading or anything.
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Blackbird »

What bugs me more about Godspeed (besides the cheesy chorus) is that the vocal part after the solo sounds exactly like every Sunrise Avenue song ever.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Arctic wrote:I like Godspeed, but it’s the perfect example of a song that should 100% be longer. The solo feels almost pointless even though it sounds great because it’s so short, and the song ends so abruptly that it’s almost annoying. It’s like, wait, it ends here? That’s dumb. There’s no ten seconds of music fading or anything.
This is absolutely true, and when I first posted about this song I said that it needs like 4-5 fixes. Lengthening it is one of them for me.

The song should be sixteen measures longer in both the beginning and the end easily. Even if Myles says "And then the days they ran out" twice more, I would totally accept that. I think the intro needs one more little set of building up as well... at least, getting into that little guitar riff that you hear when Myles starts singing... do a bit of that through a set. But yes, this song ends abruptly and needs a little more meat in its bones.

I do think the solo's length is fine for this song, for me... I wouldn't complain about more, though. What I really think is that little quieter part where Myles starts singing again should stay low and quiet like that for a while, and when the drum build-up happens should be as he's singing a little more low chorus, then they should repeat the whole chorus in regular high octave.

Okay, I didn't describe that well enough. Try and picture this after the solo:
(low, quiet)
Farewell, godspeed and goodbye
You have lived and you have changed all our li(drum build)iiiiiives
(high, loud)
Farewell, godspeed and goodbye
You have lived and you have chan(drum build)ged all our lives
Cast away our regrets and all our fears
Just like, like you did when you were here

And then the days, they ran out
And then the days, they ran out
And then the days, they ran out
And then the days, they ran out
No
I know it's OT for these songs, but I feel the same every time I hear Forever Falling and its second verse. It needs two more lines. That's the one nitpick of that song for me (outside of the vocals being buried into the mix).

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Ubik
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Ubik »

I like the abruptness of the ending, it's about someone passing too soon and it increases the sense of loss with the "they ran out" lines. I think it's a song where the attempt to be concise really fits.
For all of the hope that it brings...

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Ubik wrote:I like the abruptness of the ending, it's about someone passing too soon and it increases the sense of loss with the "they ran out" lines. I think it's a song where the attempt to be concise really fits.
I get that on a thematic level absolutely, and in which case I'm generally accepting of the musicians' intent.

On a music level, by principal, I'm left wanting more lol.

Here is an edit that is indicative of what I'd prefer from this song, but does not contain all of the sonic edits that I originally pitched (this would just be the pace/length alterations, basically):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19VsHQw ... sp=sharing

Oh, this song could also go for two more lines in the second verse as well. That would beef it up even more.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Timotheus »

MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
(low, quiet)
Farewell, godspeed and goodbye
You have lived and you have changed all our li(drum build)iiiiiives
(high, loud)
Farewell, godspeed and goodbye
You have lived and you have chan(drum build)ged all our lives
Cast away our regrets and all our fears
Just like, like you did when you were here

And then the days, they ran out
And then the days, they ran out
And then the days, they ran out
And then the days, they ran out
No
That's lazy songwriting. Just repeat everything. The slow build up and the second chorus coming in after is so much more impactful.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Timotheus wrote:That's lazy songwriting. Just repeat everything. The slow build up and the second chorus coming in after is so much more impactful.
Perhaps for you (regarding impact), and I understand the different strokes bit. Pacing-wise though, I'm not feeling its girth it can have.

And for me the "lazy songwriting" comes with no extra two lines in the second verse of this song (or Forever Falling), but I wouldn't ever dare call what AB does lazy. It's just a relative term, or for lack of a more appropriate term here. Basically, if something is already complete in your eyes, then filling it out wouldn't make it lazy. I don't think it has enough though, so I'm calling the second verse "lazy" by comparison.

If repetition is a form of "lazy songwriting," do you know how many times they say "So burn it down" in its own song? Ten times. Do you know how many times Myles says "In the Year of the Tiger" in its song? Twelve times... four times at the very end. This wouldn't have been the first time they would have done it, and this one for Godspeed wouldn't feel like it would have overrun its course.

Oh, and do they have to repeat "and then the days they ran out"? Absolutely not. They can just say it twice and then have music take them out for sixteen more measures if they want, which is I think what the poster before me was saying. I just don't have a way of editing that if I wanted. I personally feel they just run out of song by the end where there should be more. Also, they could go with the thematic thing that Ubik said and maybe have the fourth time they go: "And then the days, they.......... no-ooooooh."

Again, it's all opinion. That's one of the qualms I have with Godspeed though, which is otherwise a fantastic song.
Last edited by MuffinMcFluffin on Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Kreuger »

I don't know how anyone can choose anything over Lover. For me it's one of the songs that beat out Blackbird.
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by abw1987 »

Interesting discussion about the length of "Godspeed". I think it's a great song as-is, and it would still be a great song if it was extended. Thanks Muffin for putting together that audio mockup – it definitely works in extended form! However I can't really say the extra measures would add enough to justify their addition, unless the band were to have done something to enhance them (like adding a layer or guitar lead, or changing a lyric). I'm guessing the band chose not to lengthen/repeat the parts any further because of what they've said in interviews about wanting to keep the songs concise. In that light, the album version works for me.
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Andy92 »

Godspeed is already 4:17 so it’s not like it’s criminally short lol.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by TenaciousBe »

Wow, I'm kind of surprised at the overwhelming love for Lover. Maybe I need to go give it another listen, but I've always been a little bit "meh" on it. Like, I know it's a great song, I enjoy it if it's on, but it's nothing that trips my trigger. My vote went to Burn it Down, which I feel is one of Myles' deepest and most heartfelt vocal performances of his career.
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Blackbird »

TenaciousBe wrote:Wow, I'm kind of surprised at the overwhelming love for Lover. Maybe I need to go give it another listen, but I've always been a little bit "meh" on it. Like, I know it's a great song, I enjoy it if it's on, but it's nothing that trips my trigger. My vote went to Burn it Down, which I feel is one of Myles' deepest and most heartfelt vocal performances of his career.
If that's what makes Burn It Down so special for you, you should love Lover. The whole last chorus and outro are a festival of vocal greatness.

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Arctic
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Arctic »

The part in Lover where the music gets quiet and Myles has that vocal shiver going on is intense.
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Andy92 wrote:Godspeed is already 4:17 so it’s not like it’s criminally short lol.
Certainly not, but everything is relative. I know some 100 minute movies that feel too long and some 160 minute movies that feel too short, for example.

And for an Alter Bridge song, you'd be amazed. These are the only songs they have that are under four minutes:

- Break Me Down
- I Know It Hurts
- Come to Life
- In the Deep
- Wouldn't You Rather
- The Damage Done
- The Bitter End
- Outright
- Home
- Ties That Bind
- One Life

My edit puts it at about five minutes, which I'm not saying is a necessity in any form whatsoever... but given its kind of long-ish intro (which could be longer), it seems to fall short rather fast.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by scarecrow »

I can see why some AB fans might not be crazy about Lover because it doesn't really sound like any of their other songs, but that's why I love it. It's a much closer to a Mayfield Four song - a great one, at that.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Kreuger »

I don't think even a solo could make Lover better, and I mean that in a good way.
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Arctic
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Arctic »

Myles extends the solo-ish guitar part at the end of the song at a show at one point, that would’ve been cool on the album version. Still a top tier song though.
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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by phatnonphatness »

Burn It Down for me, with Lover a close second.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by Buffon »

Lover would be amazing if there was only one Myles singing.

I could go with any of the first three albums here. Picked All Hope Is Gone because I had a feeling it would be overlooked, and now I see it's level with f***ing My Champion after my vote. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

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Re: Battle Of The Track Numbers: Track 04

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Buffon wrote:Lover would be amazing if there was only one Myles singing.

I could go with any of the first three albums here. Picked All Hope Is Gone because I had a feeling it would be overlooked, and now I see it's level with f***ing My Champion after my vote. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
You have to remember that only first place votes are cast, though. That's kind of the problem with this whole thing. Maybe five or so people vote My Champion as their number one, with everyone else having it at their number 6. Meanwhile, maybe five or so people vote for All Hope Is Gone as their number one, and the rest have it as their second or third pick. We can't account for that.

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