Walk The Sky Production Quality.

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littledreamer
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by littledreamer »

Andy92 wrote:If you have Spotify premium, there’s a built in 6-band EQ that’s fairly useful if you want the bass tamed some.

It’s all a personal preference imo. I wouldn’t necessarily tweet Elvis about it lol, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using an EQ to your liking.
No offense, but using Spotify to judge sound quality? It's a rudimentary stream, even at "high quality." Unless it's a 320kbps rip or better, too many artifacts in the compressed file to really comment accurately. Sorry, but true. Many people think they know sound(ie. Louder is better- Um, no, I have a volume knob), or they hear bass and think it's amazing. Good sound is clear, punchy, balanced, spacious, open, etc. One can't get more than a general idea from a stream such as Spotify.

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MidnightToker
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by MidnightToker »

littledreamer wrote:
scarecrow wrote:
littledreamer wrote:Unfortunately, Elvis has blocked me on Twitter already for asking about this
lmao, what a baby
I was also blocked by the immortal David Coverdale for questioning the production of Whitesnake's 2015 revisit "The Purple Album." If you've ever listened on decent equipment, you know why I said something.
LOL. Sorry, I just find it funny that bands are out there blocking you for questioning the production quality of albums. Assuming you weren't overly rude about it, it seems like they're being too sensitive.

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gbruin
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by gbruin »

Have we ever discussed Elvis and the mix on AB albums before? ;) I'm looking forward to hearing this tonight when I get a chance to try it. Thanks for doing this, littledreamer. Some people here are tired of hearing about production issues, and it's clearly not enough to make a tangible difference to many listeners, but to professionals on high end (or really low end) equipment it's a real thing. I figure I'm somewhere in the middle.

Death Magnetic gets cited a lot, but one album that was way more egregious was Nevermore's Enemies Of Reality in 2003. I loved that band but that thing was unlistenable, and I'm no recording professional in the slightest. Fortunately, Andy Sneap remixed it a year later and the band re-released it the year after that and it was suddenly really really great. The difference was night and day, but for many people, until you hear it, you just don't know.

I was wondering last night if we'll ever get to the point technologically where bands will release albums where the instrument tracks are independently loaded in a way that allows the buyer to customize his or her own mix. This occurred to me as I was once again reflexively turning up the volume on Forever Falling to try to hear Mark better (which of course just made everything louder and didn't help a damn bit). I doubt that bands would ever want to do this - their mix and production is part of their creative process - but new tech may make it possible beyond just adjusting the EQ on our players. It would be interesting to have a go at TLH which suffered a lot more from its mix than WTS to my ears.
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scarecrow
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by scarecrow »

Has anyone purchased the HD Tracks version? I'm curious but not curious enough to spend the $18.

Andy92
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by Andy92 »

littledreamer wrote:
Andy92 wrote:If you have Spotify premium, there’s a built in 6-band EQ that’s fairly useful if you want the bass tamed some.

It’s all a personal preference imo. I wouldn’t necessarily tweet Elvis about it lol, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using an EQ to your liking.
No offense, but using Spotify to judge sound quality? It's a rudimentary stream, even at "high quality." Unless it's a 320kbps rip or better, too many artifacts in the compressed file to really comment accurately. Sorry, but true. Many people think they know sound(ie. Louder is better- Um, no, I have a volume knob), or they hear bass and think it's amazing. Good sound is clear, punchy, balanced, spacious, open, etc. One can't get more than a general idea from a stream such as Spotify.
Never said I was using Spotify to judge sound quality...I said it has a built in 6-band EQ. It’s an option for people who want to make some slight adjustments easily.

Your “remix” in Audacity isn’t a remix at all because you don’t have access to the original master tracks. You’re just EQ’ing the final mix.

It’s kind of funny...you’re surprised Elvis blocked you when you used such a rudimentary free program like Audacity, and you’re telling others they don’t know sound. I’m pretty sure he thinks you don’t know sound either lol.

I don’t have an issue with your premise by the way, but you don’t have to act pretentious about it. I could talk for days about frequency response as an Electronic Engineer...but I don’t use my background to tell a musician “hey your art is wrong.” I also don’t go online to tell people their knowledge of sound is inferior. :)
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

littledreamer
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by littledreamer »

Andy92 wrote:
littledreamer wrote:
Andy92 wrote:If you have Spotify premium, there’s a built in 6-band EQ that’s fairly useful if you want the bass tamed some.

It’s all a personal preference imo. I wouldn’t necessarily tweet Elvis about it lol, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using an EQ to your liking.
No offense, but using Spotify to judge sound quality? It's a rudimentary stream, even at "high quality." Unless it's a 320kbps rip or better, too many artifacts in the compressed file to really comment accurately. Sorry, but true. Many people think they know sound(ie. Louder is better- Um, no, I have a volume knob), or they hear bass and think it's amazing. Good sound is clear, punchy, balanced, spacious, open, etc. One can't get more than a general idea from a stream such as Spotify.
Never said I was using Spotify to judge sound quality...I said it has a built in 6-band EQ. It’s an option for people who want to make some slight adjustments easily.

Your “remix” in Audacity isn’t a remix at all because you don’t have access to the original master tracks. You’re just EQ’ing the final mix.

It’s kind of funny...you’re surprised Elvis blocked you when you used such a rudimentary free program like Audacity, and you’re telling others they don’t know sound. I’m pretty sure he thinks you don’t know sound either lol.

I don’t have an issue with your premise by the way, but you don’t have to act pretentious about it. I could talk for days about frequency response as an Electronic Engineer...but I don’t use my background to tell a musician “hey your art is wrong.” I also don’t go online to tell people their knowledge of sound is inferior. :)
Fair points, and apologies if I came across as pretentious. I am just frustrated with the state of modern recordings, and WTS is typical of the issue. I'm not saying the "art" is wrong, the product is simply and clearly flawed. If I can use a rudimentary piece of software to make it better simply with an EQ job, someone has massively underperformed. I personally have no problem politely questioning someone like Baskette- it needs to be better, as he is hurting the ability of a great band like AB from moving forward. Also, many many people claim to know sound, yet are frighteningly oblivious and think an iPhone speaker/buds sound great. The music world is far too accepting of incredibly poor recordings these days. As a benchmark, I would rate Slipknot's We Are Not Your Kind as very well produced these days- by Greg Fidelman, the butcher of Death Magnetic.

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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

I would kill for a modern Alter Bridge album to have the sound of old, or of Slipknot's album even. I'm hearing them in my head now as I listen to some of their songs. Goodness, they really need to change form.

These songs are getting hampered as a result, like it's legitimately killing the experience.

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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by Exceed »

Walk the Sky is definitely an improvement on The Last Hero. The mixing on TLH is criminal. The bridge in This Side of Fate is probably my favorite segment of music in history, and I often imagine what it'd sound like if the mix wasn't so damn muddy. I like the grand sound they go for, but it needs to be executed better.

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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by chtimixeur »

scarecrow wrote:Has anyone purchased the HD Tracks version? I'm curious but not curious enough to spend the $18.
I've seen the waveform of Qobuz's HD version, and it's 100% identical to the CD's.
My advice is don't waste your money, because you won't hear a difference (the dynamics are exactly the same).

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Crumbso
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by Crumbso »

I think Elvis is actually rather good at getting tones and clearly is a good creative partner and perhaps even the mixing isn't that bad. Perhaps he exports the project too hot and then the mastering only makes it even hotter and the problem compounds itself. Some of the world's greatest albums sound like shit. I used to get annoyed by this stuff but I just think that it is what it is now.
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gbruin
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by gbruin »

It's interesting that sound production/reproduction issues have gotten more complicated in part because of the technological advances built for the listeners. I grew up listening to vinyl played through a dedicated tuner/amplifier and big 5 cone floor speakers - because that's all we had - and it sounded freaking amazing. The drive for miniaturization and portability and convenience have created many of these problems we're talking about. That's not just an Elvis issue. It's a 2020 music consumer industry issue. Maybe WTS sounds like vintage 70's rock on a turntable and a ginormous home stereo system. I'm sure they're listening back to the recordings in the studio and post-pro on something better than an iPhone and a bluetooth speaker.
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cheesedip1
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by cheesedip1 »

im sorry for saying this, but the only decently mixed AB album was One Day Remains.

back when I first got AB's 2nd album, back in like 2009, I always wondered why I wasnt super into the album, why I couldnt enjoy it more. The songs sounded better live.

I'm pretty sure it was the mix.

I can still listen to the albums, but they clearly could be mixed better.

littledreamer
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by littledreamer »

I do think Elvis has a significant hand in creating great songs, I mean, what a track record since Blackbird. However, they desperately need a new engineer(or person just in charge of making the band sound great).

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Crumbso
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by Crumbso »

littledreamer wrote:I do think Elvis has a significant hand in creating great songs, I mean, what a track record since Blackbird. However, they desperately need a new engineer(or person just in charge of making the band sound great).
Maybe they could keep Elvis on as producer but send the mix off to someone else.
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by BennyWhatever »

I just wanted to drop in and say I agree with just about everything said in this thread. The songs are all masterpieces but are held back by some bad production.
It is way better than TLH, though. I don't know what they were smoking then. I'd also agree that ODR is probably their best "sounding" album, even with the lack of bass.
:yeahthat

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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by prslover »

Give me one guitar that sounds as good as the intro for Shed my Skin or Broken Wings, just track one guitar that sounds that good and i'll never say anything bad about EB again. Holdup lemme hop in my time machine and go back to 2005 to deliver that message and change the future.

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Flet
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by Flet »

Crumbso wrote: Maybe they could keep Elvis on as producer but send the mix off to someone else.
That is what I've been saying around here since TLH mix was off.
And yet, how can the Tremonti albums be so stellar in sound (minus Cauterize, which was horrible)

It's funny, it was said somewhere else, and I'll add my experience here. I first started listening to the album in my car, and it was horrible, just horrible. So bad, I had to stop because I thought something was wrong with the album files. Later, I went back to the album, with my earbuds (Tranya 3s), and listen at mid volumes (even though I like it louder), and it sounds much better.
But that...that is a problem. I should be allowed to listen to an album loud without it crackling and sounding muddy...and I should have the option for listening on my good home speakers. But alas, this album is only passable on my earbuds at mid level volume. Shame.
Last edited by Flet on Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

(wrong thread)
Last edited by MuffinMcFluffin on Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

prowler5150
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by prowler5150 »

I agree that the drums and particularly the cymbals sound rough. I was amazed how much better the drums sounded when watching the better YouTube videos from Cleveland of Mark singing. No booming bass and no jingle bell cymbals. The band as a whole had more "air" to it even on a crappy YouTube video captured on a cell phone. You didn't get that "wall of noise" vibe.

To hear great sounding modern music, check out anything Steven Wilson is involved with. You may not like the music (I don't always), but the quality of the sound is amazing - every instrument and voice is very clear and very dynamic. His solo albums and Opeth's Pale Communion are how music should *sound*. With Mark being an Opeth fan, I was hoping some of this would rub off. Having said that, the last two Opeth albums (which were not mixed by Steven Wilson) sound much worse.

littledreamer
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Re: Walk The Sky Production Quality.

Post by littledreamer »

Thanks for the Steven Wilson link, I'll look into that. I always appreciate good production skills. I'm going to adjust my eq job today a bit, I think it might be just a bit bright. However, yesterday as a test, I loaded the original CD in my system...just atrocious comparatively.

I found "A Dying Machine" clearer than WTS, but still had the overpowering bass kick far too prominent in the mix. I think people then listen on buds with no bass, and go "Wow, the bass! What a great recording!" Argh. Get a better medium.

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