Walk The Sky Production Quality.

[DCooper727]

Does it bother anyone else that there are people who can't hear the difference between ODR's production and something like TLH? There are plenty of users here who just say they sound the same and it blows my mind. Go put on Broken Wings and listen to how clear everything is. Like how the **** can people not notice the difference? The band used to sound massive and now the production makes them sound small, ironically enough.

[rscotta831]

I do care greatly about sound/production quality, and am not impressed with WTS at all. To me, it's a BRILLIANT painting on a cardboard canvas. Very frustrating.

Now, if you are happy with the sound, great. I would immediately hypothesize that you are listening through a below average medium, such as a phone speaker/Spotify etc. stream/basic speaker system/average or less headphones.

The main issue I have is the muddy low end- right around Flip's kick drum- around 100-250hz from what I can tell. Muddy bass sounds such as this recording kill the sonic experience- you can't hear the band properly.

Thanks, and I'd love to know your thoughts! If you disagree, that's fine, but please do consider your listening source and personal ability to discern quality music from poorly produced modern recordings. I am simply presenting the elephant in the AB room.

I care greatly about sound/production quality too and IMO, it is their best. And no, it's not my fav AB album...5th on my list.

I have their 24-bit lossless files. In the car, am listening through Audison Thesis 3-way component speakers (1.5" tweeters, 3" mids and 6.5" midbasses) with 150 watts of Zapco amplifiers per speaker. Sub pair are two JL Audio 13.5" W7s with 1000 watts per sub. Processor is a Mosconi 8to12 Aerospace. Doors and roof are matted with sound deadening. Two XS Power Batteries. 0 gauge wire for all power and ground connections, including the alternator and car chassis. RCA cables from the Processor to the amps are custom-made Studio grade Mogami cables. Have around 10K of hardware in my car. Did around 95% of the install myself. Has been a passionate hobby of mine for 35 years. I'm hellbent on achieving the highest sound quality in a car as possible.

IMO, the kick drum sounds awesome. If it's too much for your taste, do you like you did...EQ the bass down. I have my bass EQ in the car down to a setting of 4 (max is 15). I normally have it set to 8 on most albums including The Last Hero. So yes, the kick drum is louder on this album, but IMO, MUCH MUCH better and clean sounding than any other album they've done.

Sonically, this is a very clean sounding album. One of the cleanest sounding rock albums I've heard...right next to Stryper's 2015 album "Fallen." I SO wish The Last Hero sonically sounded this good.

[Buffon]

Does it bother anyone else that there are people who can't hear the difference between ODR's production and something like TLH? There are plenty of users here who just say they sound the same and it blows my mind. Go put on Broken Wings and listen to how clear everything is. Like how the **** can people not notice the difference? The band used to sound massive and now the production makes them sound small, ironically enough.

I'm guessing it's a combination of listening on basic equipment (ODR would probably sound just as bad as Last Hero listening to a 128kbps stream on cheap earbuds), not being as sensitive to these kinds of details (the way some people get bothered by video games running at lower frame rates and others can't tell the difference), or just not giving a crap as long as the songs are good. Or maybe some people just prefer the wall-of-sound effect.

Blows my mind too

[MuffinMcFluffin]

What do you play these on? Receiver, speakers, sub, the whole nine.

What is your system calibrated to? Is it flat? House curve? Attuned for music with lowered mids? Do you have a calibration file that you can share, by chance?

Thanks.

[prslover]

So I am feeling a lot better about the record now. The sound of it. The reason I was upset initially is the first time I put it on in my car that kick drum just aggravated the hell out of me. My bass EQ was centered, now its -3 and its tolerable. Dont like to do that because I don't want to reduce Brian but thats what has to be done in my car. FYI , I have a 2016 Toyota 4runner Limited with a stock system. Its a good stock system though. After listening from my phone through ear buds it's very enjoyable and the riffage and lyrics shine through better and you can enjoy it without constantly manipulating volume and EQ.
So I can give some benefit of the doubt regarding producing and mixing a record in this day and age with all the different ways the music can be consumed. I went riding my bike and listened to the record on my ear buds start to finish and it sounds good that way. The songs/riffs/lyrics are top notch as always from our boys.

[gbruin]

So I am feeling a lot better about the record now. The sound of it. The reason I was upset initially is the first time I put it on in my car that kick drum just aggravated the hell out of me. My bass EQ was centered, now its -3 and its tolerable. Dont like to do that because I don't want to reduce Brian but thats what has to be done in my car. FYI , I have a 2016 Toyota 4runner Limited with a stock system. Its a good stock system though. After listening from my phone through ear buds it's very enjoyable and the riffage and lyrics shine through better and you can enjoy it without constantly manipulating volume and EQ.
So I can give some benefit of the doubt regarding producing and mixing a record in this day and age with all the different ways the music can be consumed. I went riding my bike and listened to the record on my ear buds start to finish and it sounds good that way. The songs/riffs/lyrics are top notch as always from our boys.

4-Runner Still driving my 2003. Love that thing.

Damn, rscotta's, your car prob has better sound than our local cinema. That sounds amazing. Would love to hear a system like that just to compare.

[Andy92]

I forgot I had my car’s bass EQ’d to +3 so moving it back to center for WTS made a huge difference for me lol

[littledreamer]

Many of the above points support my original point- the kick drum is overpowering the mix. I, for one, like to randomize a few cd's, but couldn't achieve this without the EQ job I updated on the end of page 3. It'd be cool if someone took the time/care to try even one song based on my updated eq job to see if they feel the same as me.

We shouldn't have a release so far out of the normal range that we are forced to turn the bass way down on our equipment to enjoy every time it comes on.

[rscotta831]

Damn, rscotta's, your car prob has better sound than our local cinema. That sounds amazing. Would love to hear a system like that just to compare.

I wish I could Star Trek teleport all of you to listen and compare. I have every AB song (and Tremonti) in lossless and would love to hear your opinions, regardless if you agree or disagree with what I think of every AB album. And I'm not saying I have something that's world class...there are thousands of car audio systems around the world better than mine, but granted, most of them don't jam heavy metal like I do.

[Andy92]

Damn, rscotta's, your car prob has better sound than our local cinema. That sounds amazing. Would love to hear a system like that just to compare.

I wish I could Star Trek teleport all of you to listen and compare. I have every AB song (and Tremonti) in lossless and would love to hear your opinions, regardless if you agree or disagree with what I think of every AB album. And I'm not saying I have something that's world class...there are thousands of car audio systems around the world better than mine, but granted, most of them don't jam heavy metal like I do.

Where’s the best place to purchase lossless files?

[rscotta831]

Damn, rscotta's, your car prob has better sound than our local cinema. That sounds amazing. Would love to hear a system like that just to compare.

I wish I could Star Trek teleport all of you to listen and compare. I have every AB song (and Tremonti) in lossless and would love to hear your opinions, regardless if you agree or disagree with what I think of every AB album. And I'm not saying I have something that's world class...there are thousands of car audio systems around the world better than mine, but granted, most of them don't jam heavy metal like I do.

Where’s the best place to purchase lossless files?

IF they offer 24-bit files for the album you want, none better than: https://www.hdtracks.com

Unfortunately, thus far, only WTS is offered. Ripping your CDs to 16-Bit lossless is the other way to go.

[rscotta831]

Many of the above points support my original point- the kick drum is overpowering the mix. I, for one, like to randomize a few cd's, but couldn't achieve this without the EQ job I updated on the end of page 3. It'd be cool if someone took the time/care to try even one song based on my updated eq job to see if they feel the same as me.

We shouldn't have a release so far out of the normal range that we are forced to turn the bass way down on our equipment to enjoy every time it comes on.

As someone who's been used to EQing for 35 years, I completely disagree with rating an album negatively because you're being forced to turn down the bass. If anything, I consider that a bonus. Why? Because you can turn down the bass without affecting the overall sound quality of the album.

With TLH, you are stuck with its brickwalled sound quality no matter what you do with the EQ. Having said that about TLH, IMO, it is not as brickwalled as the original release of Death Magnetic or other similar circa 2008 albums.

Trust me...as someone who has adored heavy metal albums for almost four decades, Walk The Sky is a phenomenal sounding album. If your only problem is too much bass (kick drum), you don't have a problem.

Go listen to Metallica's Kill Em All. It won't blow you away with the best sound quality you've ever heard. But what it omits is distortion and a brickwalled sound. And IMO, that is key. You can crank that album on a decent system as loud as you can take it and what you won't hear is distortion. If you do, you've got a cheap system. Another big bonus to that album, for 1983, is it has a ton of kick drum, much like Walk The Sky. Guess what...you can turn the bass down and it still kicks ass.

As for a live album, sound quality wise, it doesn't get any better than AB - Live in Köln, Palladium Rockpalast (12/05/2016)

[TenaciousBe]

For comparison, here's the new Clint Lowery solo single that came out today, also produced and engineered by Elvis and Jef. What's the verdict on their work here?

[littledreamer]

Many of the above points support my original point- the kick drum is overpowering the mix. I, for one, like to randomize a few cd's, but couldn't achieve this without the EQ job I updated on the end of page 3. It'd be cool if someone took the time/care to try even one song based on my updated eq job to see if they feel the same as me.

We shouldn't have a release so far out of the normal range that we are forced to turn the bass way down on our equipment to enjoy every time it comes on.

As someone who's been used to EQing for 35 years, I completely disagree with rating an album negatively because you're being forced to turn down the bass. If anything, I consider that a bonus. Why? Because you can turn down the bass without affecting the overall sound quality of the album.

With TLH, you are stuck with its brickwalled sound quality no matter what you do with the EQ. Having said that about TLH, IMO, it is not as brickwalled as the original release of Death Magnetic or other similar circa 2008 albums.

Trust me...as someone who has adored heavy metal albums for almost four decades, Walk The Sky is a phenomenal sounding album. If your only problem is too much bass (kick drum), you don't have a problem.

Go listen to Metallica's Kill Em All. It won't blow you away with the best sound quality you've ever heard. But what it omits is distortion and a brickwalled sound. And IMO, that is key. You can crank that album on a decent system as loud as you can take it and what you won't hear is distortion. If you do, you've got a cheap system. Another big bonus to that album, for 1983, is it has a ton of kick drum, much like Walk The Sky. Guess what...you can turn the bass down and it still kicks ass.

As for a live album, sound quality wise, it doesn't get any better than AB - Live in Köln, Palladium Rockpalast (12/05/2016)

Sometime's it perfectly fine to have a different opinion. I carry many many years of audio experience as well- I'm 48. I would never compare the open and dry sounding Kill 'Em All to the compressed and muddy Walk The Sky. To me, that's bizarre. KEA was one of my first musical journeys. The recent remaster is much more balanced, to me, much more satisfying.

It's not just me saying the kick drum is massively overpowering, many others on this thread agree. One instrument should never hide other parts of the music in a proper recording. I am quite happy with my EQ job- but shouldn't have to do it in the first place- my entire point. Walk The Sky is an amazing painting done on cardboard- nowhere do I "rate the album negatively," I am criticizing the engineering/production, not the musicianship or songwriting. It's freaking amazing.

[littledreamer]

For comparison, here's the new Clint Lowery solo single that came out today, also produced and engineered by Elvis and Jef. What's the verdict on their work here?

Could never tell from a video- even the Wouldn't You Rather video mix is different than the release...and I'm not planning on buying any Sevendust related material- I bought their earlier stuff and found the production horrendously overcompressed, so I never really discovered the band. Potential unrealized. Kind of like recent Volbeat, just horrific production.

[Andy92]

I will say with early Sevendust, I can barely hear the vocals at all on a song like Black. It’s such a well known song for them and I can barely hear what’s going on other than the guitar riff lol

[rscotta831]

Many of the above points support my original point- the kick drum is overpowering the mix. I, for one, like to randomize a few cd's, but couldn't achieve this without the EQ job I updated on the end of page 3. It'd be cool if someone took the time/care to try even one song based on my updated eq job to see if they feel the same as me.

We shouldn't have a release so far out of the normal range that we are forced to turn the bass way down on our equipment to enjoy every time it comes on.

As someone who's been used to EQing for 35 years, I completely disagree with rating an album negatively because you're being forced to turn down the bass. If anything, I consider that a bonus. Why? Because you can turn down the bass without affecting the overall sound quality of the album.

With TLH, you are stuck with its brickwalled sound quality no matter what you do with the EQ. Having said that about TLH, IMO, it is not as brickwalled as the original release of Death Magnetic or other similar circa 2008 albums.

Trust me...as someone who has adored heavy metal albums for almost four decades, Walk The Sky is a phenomenal sounding album. If your only problem is too much bass (kick drum), you don't have a problem.

Go listen to Metallica's Kill Em All. It won't blow you away with the best sound quality you've ever heard. But what it omits is distortion and a brickwalled sound. And IMO, that is key. You can crank that album on a decent system as loud as you can take it and what you won't hear is distortion. If you do, you've got a cheap system. Another big bonus to that album, for 1983, is it has a ton of kick drum, much like Walk The Sky. Guess what...you can turn the bass down and it still kicks ass.

As for a live album, sound quality wise, it doesn't get any better than AB - Live in Köln, Palladium Rockpalast (12/05/2016)

Sometime's it perfectly fine to have a different opinion. I carry many many years of audio experience as well- I'm 48. I would never compare the open and dry sounding Kill 'Em All to the compressed and muddy Walk The Sky. To me, that's bizarre. KEA was one of my first musical journeys. The recent remaster is much more balanced, to me, much more satisfying.

It's not just me saying the kick drum is massively overpowering, many others on this thread agree. One instrument should never hide other parts of the music in a proper recording. I am quite happy with my EQ job- but shouldn't have to do it in the first place- my entire point. Walk The Sky is an amazing painting done on cardboard- nowhere do I "rate the album negatively," I am criticizing the engineering/production, not the musicianship or songwriting. It's freaking amazing.

You're right, it's perfectly fine to have a different opinion. We can agree to disagree on the engineering/production of WTS. I do believe nitpicking an album for merely too much kick drum isn't call for complaining. We're well into the 21st Century. Albums in this era are going to have instruments galore blended together. Long gone are the days of a simple and balanced two guitars, a bass and drums recording.

I'm perfectly fine for complaining about the engineering/production of TLH as it is no question brickwalled.

Other than its kick drum, I'm not comparing the engineering/production of Kill Em All to WTS. What I am saying is they are both clean sounding albums. The recent remaster of Kill Em All adds a TON of kick drum. The original release already had a good bit.

[prslover]

I bought the Clint Lowery single the other day. It sounds ok but I just don't think its that great of a song. I will buy the rest of the record when it comes out because I want to support Clint and I want to hear the new PRS MT 100 which was used on it.

[Crumbso]

Many of the above points support my original point- the kick drum is overpowering the mix. I, for one, like to randomize a few cd's, but couldn't achieve this without the EQ job I updated on the end of page 3. It'd be cool if someone took the time/care to try even one song based on my updated eq job to see if they feel the same as me.

We shouldn't have a release so far out of the normal range that we are forced to turn the bass way down on our equipment to enjoy every time it comes on.

As someone who's been used to EQing for 35 years, I completely disagree with rating an album negatively because you're being forced to turn down the bass. If anything, I consider that a bonus. Why? Because you can turn down the bass without affecting the overall sound quality of the album.

With TLH, you are stuck with its brickwalled sound quality no matter what you do with the EQ. Having said that about TLH, IMO, it is not as brickwalled as the original release of Death Magnetic or other similar circa 2008 albums.

Trust me...as someone who has adored heavy metal albums for almost four decades, Walk The Sky is a phenomenal sounding album. If your only problem is too much bass (kick drum), you don't have a problem.

Go listen to Metallica's Kill Em All. It won't blow you away with the best sound quality you've ever heard. But what it omits is distortion and a brickwalled sound. And IMO, that is key. You can crank that album on a decent system as loud as you can take it and what you won't hear is distortion. If you do, you've got a cheap system. Another big bonus to that album, for 1983, is it has a ton of kick drum, much like Walk The Sky. Guess what...you can turn the bass down and it still kicks ass.

As for a live album, sound quality wise, it doesn't get any better than AB - Live in Köln, Palladium Rockpalast (12/05/2016)

Sometime's it perfectly fine to have a different opinion. I carry many many years of audio experience as well- I'm 48. I would never compare the open and dry sounding Kill 'Em All to the compressed and muddy Walk The Sky. To me, that's bizarre. KEA was one of my first musical journeys. The recent remaster is much more balanced, to me, much more satisfying.

It's not just me saying the kick drum is massively overpowering, many others on this thread agree. One instrument should never hide other parts of the music in a proper recording. I am quite happy with my EQ job- but shouldn't have to do it in the first place- my entire point. Walk The Sky is an amazing painting done on cardboard- nowhere do I "rate the album negatively," I am criticizing the engineering/production, not the musicianship or songwriting. It's freaking amazing.

You're right, it's perfectly fine to have a different opinion. We can agree to disagree on the engineering/production of WTS. I do believe nitpicking an album for merely too much kick drum isn't call for complaining. We're well into the 21st Century. Albums in this era are going to have instruments galore blended together. Long gone are the days of a simple and balanced two guitars, a bass and drums recording.

I'm perfectly fine for complaining about the engineering/production of TLH as it is no question brickwalled.

Other than its kick drum, I'm not comparing the engineering/production of Kill Em All to WTS. What I am saying is they are both clean sounding albums. The recent remaster of Kill Em All adds a TON of kick drum. The original release already had a good bit.

WTS is certainly no paragon of clarity or music production prowess. The complex parts of riffs are totally hidden by the limiting and the drums. If you can work out what's happening guitar-wise in Dying Light's chorus, then you have better ears than I. It's certainly better than TLH and I'm fine with it but I certainly would change a lot if I could. KEA isn't exactly a great sounding record either, it's the attitude and performance that makes it an awesome album. If you want a Metallica record to compare to as a goal for sound quality (not material) then Load & Reload are the ones.

WTS is a great record but, IMHO (of course, nothing in music production is fact - despite what people say), there are still significant problems with overall volume, mixing and arrangments. I don't EQ for individual songs or albums either. If I absolutely have to then I do see that as a failing.

Having said all that. It is what it is and it's not a fatiguing mix so I'm happy. Fortress was Elvis' best AB effort (good clarity and power), closely followed by AB3 (nice crunchy guitars!).

To add fuel to the fire of hot-takes (for fun) I never liked the way Blackbird as an album was mixed. It sounds boxy. Also, if anyone says ODR has no bass, they're mental. It's got huge low end. That bass is just not defined in a way that you can clearly make out the individual notes. It blends with the guitar.

[Crumbso]

Just an addendum - This discussion has been ongoing on this board since 2007!