AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby joshuabeau » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:19 pm

Timotheus wrote:When Pay No Mind was released pretty much every comment on Ultimate Guitar mentioned how bad the production was.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/up ... _mind.html

It's not just this site.

Yeah and some of those comments were pretty harsh too. Lol. But I do agree though. How do they not hear how bad it sounds? Or maybe they just like it. Who knows.
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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Blackbirddd » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:32 pm

It's difficult to hear the complete orchestra on the DVD, that's a fact, if you hear the Bring Me The Horizon DVD you can hear everything, and it's the same orchestra so there's no excuses

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Fish Tacos » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:32 pm

We challenge ourselves to not repeat ourselves and find new inspiration to add a different layer to what we do.


It's kind of amusing. For all the talk that is constantly mentioned every press cycle about doing something new, not repeating themselves and always trying to switch it up, different production never seems to be a part of that. Honestly, I get why. Mark & Co. have had some bad experiences business-wise and likely value loyalty to a higher degree, but considering he's produced 10 albums between AB, Tremonti and Myle's solo project, you can't say they didn't give Elvis the ol' college try. It just seems to be getting worse and more pronounced over time and I'm by no means an audiophile.
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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Silvercreed » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:07 pm

anguyen92 wrote: I didn't want it to be too "in your face" about it because then it overshadows the band.


I agree with you. I don't want the sound of the orchestra overpowering the band. But if they going to mix in 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 whatever just make the best of it.
I have the Within Temptation's Black symphony dvd and hear the orchestra and the band in 2.0. Of course i don't expect to hear all instruments in 2 channels but they made a good balance.
The Dark Knight medley in Hans Zimmer live in prague dvd is another good example. I hear all the distorted guitar, bass and a powerful orchestra. I bet there are other good examples, out there.
Of course 5.1 is always better but i don't have 5 speakers. A decent/good 2.1 system like i have is great enough to listen good sound.

I can hear the orchestra perfectly fine in Ties that Bind and most of The end is Here. Why they don't put the same balance with the other songs?
I think is very simple if there are 50 instruments, i want to hear as much as possible. What's the point of making a concert like that in the fist place?
For me, musically speaking the mix is very poor.
Before AB, i love music. If I make a criticism like this is because I really like the music of this band. We need criticism to evolve, but nowadays, fans in general, accept everything whatever is good or bad.

My point about production is because a good one can make people appreciate more their music and also, can attract new fans. And it's so good when we listen to a comfortable sound all day long, whatever the style the music.

That's why i appreciate more and more guys like Steven Wilson. He always has the concern for quality sound (the mix of Home invasion dvd is so good). He's a musician with good taste.

Sorry for the big post

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Jaded Rescue » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:17 pm

Fish Tacos wrote:
We challenge ourselves to not repeat ourselves and find new inspiration to add a different layer to what we do.


It's kind of amusing. For all the talk that is constantly mentioned every press cycle about doing something new, not repeating themselves and always trying to switch it up, different production never seems to be a part of that. Honestly, I get why. Mark & Co. have had some bad experiences business-wise and likely value loyalty to a higher degree, but considering he's produced 10 albums between AB, Tremonti and Myle's solo project, you can't say they didn't give Elvis the ol' college try. It just seems to be getting worse and more pronounced over time and I'm by no means an audiophile.

So much this. I'm so sick of hearing them talk about trying to stay fresh and yet they've been on the same producer for 12 years now. At this point, you don't need to be an audiophile. Anybody can recognize what trash looks like even if you're not a sanitation worker.

Sorry to anyone reading if that sounds harsh. I still really enjoy AB's songwriting, I'm just growing more and more frustrated with every release of a new album or song from them. I seriously can't figure out if they're just not in the room for mixing/mastering, or if they themselves are the ones pushing for the over-compressed sound. Especially considering not all of Elvis's albums sound like this. It sucks being a fan of a band since they day they started, and years later not even being able to enjoy their music because it's so fatiguing to listen to. And they'll keep doing this so long as there are fans that hear that compression and go, "Dude, that's so heavy! SICK!" You know what was heavy? Back in Black by AC/DC. And it was precisely because they understood that silence between the notes makes things sound heavier.

And to be honest, AB's live shows aren't any better. I can barely make out individual parts or vocals when they play live because, shocker, there IS a such thing as "too loud".

Again, sorry everyone. Rant over. Just needed to get some of that out.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby MuffinMcFluffin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:30 pm

Plenty of people, including myself, had harked on the recording and mixing of the RAH discs. I got the Blu-ray version with as uncompressed of audio as we're going to get, and it still suffers. Even worse though is the CD of it. You can downmix the Blu-ray to 2.0 from 5.1 and it'll sound loads better than the CD as is. Still needs a lot more tuning, but even then it's simply not as crisp of a sound as, say, their Amsterdam concert mix.

Anyway, The Last Hero doesn't just have a mixing issue, it also has an arrangement issue. When all four of them are going full-bore at their instruments with complex riffs, it just seems like each of them are going: "WATCH ME! WATCH ME! CHECK THIS OUT! LOOK WHAT I CAN DO! WATCH ME! HERE, WATCH!" You watch them play Poison In Your Veins live, and in the riff before the first verse you're sitting there going: "Who the hell is playing what, and what am I listening to??" Even You Will Be Remembered instrumentally hits double-time after the beginning for no apparent reason.

Then when you get to Breathe on the disc, you remember what their sound used to be and how song came before style. There is a craft to making a song, just like making a film... and why the Transformers movies are considered less than filmic art. You can't have 2.5 hours of mindless action, or none of it carries any weight. You can distinguish parts, and there is character to bits that are played where I can actually feel something again.

And yes, their concert sound is all like TLH. Now their older songs don't have their previous form anymore, especially with Mark's distorted guitar.

I have yet to hear Pay No Mind, but Wouldn't You Rather has a little bit of the wall-of-noise problem so far. We'll see how some of these other songs turn out.
Last edited by MuffinMcFluffin on Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Silvercreed » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:02 pm

Jaded Rescue wrote:And to be honest, AB's live shows aren't any better. I can barely make out individual parts or vocals when they play live because, shocker, there IS a such thing as "too loud".


I never meant to do a big post about what i think is a problem in this band. But i just slipped away. I don't have any problem discussing things whatever good or bad. It's just an opinion.

What are you saying is another big problem. How in a world a band/mixers let that happen. The sound of the concerts is horrible. Extremely loud, no clarity, a lot of distortion etc.
Its seems their objective is to make everyone with tinnitus or deaf.
Myles almost end his career due to his tinnitus. He could have more concern about the sound. I only wished they removed their in-ear monitors to hear the shitty sound they're doing.

I love the band, they always try to do new things with their new records, which i love! But i hope they evolve in terms of sound production.
I bought the ticket for December but i don't have any expectations soundwise and setlist. It seems they don't intend to play much new songs and still play the "favorites" rise today whatever. (although, i have no doubt that it will be another great concert, performance wise).
I wished fans to encourage the band to do different sets.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Arctic » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:17 pm

I think it’s bizarre, but Mark and Myles are both seasoned professionals, and have obviously heard and approve and/or like what they hear production wise. I don’t know how they can go from the sound on ODR to what we have now, but what do I know.
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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby ToNsOFuN88 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:21 pm

At this point I wish they would get a different producer so we didn't have to hear about how horrible they sound now every 5 minutes.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby LosingPatience » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:40 pm

Blackbirddd wrote:It's difficult to hear the complete orchestra on the DVD, that's a fact, if you hear the Bring Me The Horizon DVD you can hear everything, and it's the same orchestra so there's no excuses



Can hear it fine, sometimes i wonder if i have better ears than others

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby anguyen92 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:45 pm

I think it's more of us, that feels like we can hear the orchestra clearly, are not really looking at certain things or care about certain things that other people look at when bands play with an orchestra. I can piece them a lot throughout the DVD. Then again, I didn't watch S&M or Within Temptation's Black Symphony or Dream Theater's Score too thoroughly, so I don't think I got a clear reference on a perfect example of blending an orchestra with a band.

I did see Evanescence with an orchestra last year and honestly, as solid as their set is, and I did hear the orchestra clearly, it was dull as hell for the most part and I couldn't piece the guitars at all and they were all sitting down and they didn't play off the crowd at all. I definitively did not want that for AB's Royal Albert Hall DVD and I'm glad it wasn't the case and I say this is definitively on par with Live From Amsterdam (although they were some trade offs when comparing Amsterdam with Royal Albert Hall).

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby LosingPatience » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:47 pm

joshuabeau wrote:
Timotheus wrote:When Pay No Mind was released pretty much every comment on Ultimate Guitar mentioned how bad the production was.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/up ... _mind.html

It's not just this site.

Yeah and some of those comments were pretty harsh too. Lol. But I do agree though. How do they not hear how bad it sounds? Or maybe they just like it. Who knows.




Pay No Mind does sound like a wall of noise Mark's guitar is barely even audible, way.........way worse than anything on TLH . Now listen i had no issues on TLH like some here and even i hear that wall of noise on Pay No Mind, still like the song though

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby riemslag1 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:05 am

Yes, both singles releases untill now are decent tracks.
But..........they are just not of the quality I expect to receive (both mixing/production and songwriting) from what I consider to be the greatest band in the world, and I’m afraid and worried that will be case for the total upcoming album.
That would be (for me) the second disappointing album in a row. I feel they are to rushed in songwriting and recording. In the past they proved to be capable of delivering several killer-albums. Take more time to produce the jewels that got you the loyal fanbase in the first place ! Fellow fans, stop blaming Elvis for the results ; in the end it will always be the band themselves who will approve or disapprove if his work and decide if it will find its way to the public or not .They were able to trash Milan themselves too................
I liked they last Tremonti album more then TLH. Would not like that to happen again, but it might.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby chtimixeur » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:31 am

It's very interesting to read some of those comments on the Ultimate-Guitar website, especially since everybody seems to agree there is an issue with the production.

Compression/production:
Just like everything on The Last Hero... the composition of the song isn't bad, but good god their production has been awful lately.

Things get overcompressed and sound like a gargled mess and sounds that are akin to clipping almost. It doesn't sound terrible, just a bit sterile and muddy in the lower range.

I can barely hear the cymbals and the textures of the drums. While the snares are predominant. All in all, it lacks dynamics. It feels like everything is drowned into that "big sound".

Sounds waaaay too compressed!

Man this is a dope song but how do you hear this mix as a band and think, yup, that is the best representation of this track?


Elvis:
They're probably just afraid to upset him because they're his friend.

Alter Bridge's long lasting friendship with Elvis Baskette is proving time and time again to be harmful to their sound, but they just wont see it. It's called "show business", not "show friendship".

That last comment is spot on.

Myles:
Myles Kennedy is probably the most gifted rock singer to never make me feel a single emotion with his music.

I love AB but am sick of hearing Myles Kennedy. For how great he is, he isn't doing anything for me anymore. I loved his vocals on the 1st 3 albums much better.

I can relate to that. I used to love his voice, and couldn't understand why anybody wouldn't like him, but since ABIII, I feel nothing when I hear him sing.

Fish Tacos wrote:
We challenge ourselves to not repeat ourselves and find new inspiration to add a different layer to what we do.


It's kind of amusing. For all the talk that is constantly mentioned every press cycle about doing something new, not repeating themselves and always trying to switch it up, different production never seems to be a part of that.

+1

Jaded Rescue wrote:So much this. I'm so sick of hearing them talk about trying to stay fresh and yet they've been on the same producer for 12 years now. At this point, you don't need to be an audiophile.

+2

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby MuffinMcFluffin » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:53 am

riemslag1 wrote:I feel they are to rushed in songwriting and recording. In the past they proved to be capable of delivering several killer-albums. Take more time to produce the jewels that got you the loyal fanbase in the first place !

Well, that's certainly an interesting way to put it.

I don't know about you, but who here was clamoring for a new AB album soon before an announcement came for WTS? What about TLH? I certainly was not, and was furthermore surprised when the announcements came because I thought they were rather sudden. We even get our small-ish AB films with Tremonti and Myles doing their solo projects, plus concert discs such as RAH. I can certainly sweat out 4-5 years waiting for another album if and when needed.

For that matter, I wouldn't mind if AB took the Sonic the Hedgehog route and Myles sent this kind of Tweet to his fans:

Myles Kennedy wrote:Thank you for the support. And the criticism. The message is loud and clear... you aren't happy with the production & you want changes. It's going to happen. Everyone for AB & Napalm are fully committed to making this tracklist the BEST it can be... #walktheskyalbum #cantdenyfixes :smashcomp :rockon


The point of that is Sonic the Hedgehog is being delayed nearly three months to do patchwork. I personally can sit it out another three months if it meant they redid the production of this album. I need to know that they are aware of our concerns. They may have artistic integrity, but we came into AB loving a particular sound (or something that is not objectively bad), and it's starting to wear thin with us. For every positive remark we provide for a new single, there are dozens of negative ones that have nothing to do with the merits of good songwriting, and it's just a shame. Three more months of patience? Not a problem.

Heck, after AB III came out, I told myself I wish they took a song like WDTTW and established for themselves that they take 5-7 years of time and make a 10-track album that contains the breadth and feel that song has, in terms of "epic" status. Basically just put out several epics all in one album, and give us the thought that every song is of tremendous quality forward and back. That being said, while Fortress wasn't exactly that it certainly was a great album that I do not regret, though I did see the path they were going down and sensed they would never return to even BB form.

Anyway, of course I get impatient once an announcement comes, but after WTS I'm not going to be hoping to hear news of something else coming around 2021, or even 2022. I'll happily settle. But I hope they at least do one more album, maybe even the aforementioned 10-song epic list. If they only have the 14 announced tracks on this disc without any bonuses, that would put them at 90 total original songs. I'm hoping they hit that special 100 mark before all is said and done, even if they land on it exactly. That would be an impressive feat in itself, especially since we have also gotten fills once again out of Myles (solo + Slash) and Tremonti.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby LosingPatience » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:25 pm

Certainly dont agree about the lack of emotion from Myles since ABIII , he has plenty of great emotion in Cradle, Love Can Only Heal heck most of his solo album, the latest Slash album The One You Loved Is Gone is incredible

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby MuffinMcFluffin » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:45 pm

LosingPatience wrote:Certainly dont agree about the lack of emotion from Myles since ABIII , he has plenty of great emotion in Cradle, Love Can Only Heal heck most of his solo album, the latest Slash album The One You Loved Is Gone is incredible

I don't know if you're responding to me, but I never said that Myles lacked emotion. You must've not comprehended the intent of my post.

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Fish Tacos » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:54 pm

MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
riemslag1 wrote:Heck, after AB III came out, I told myself I wish they took a song like WDTTW and established for themselves that they take 5-7 years of time and make a 10-track album that contains the breadth and feel that song has, in terms of "epic" status.


I personally don't think they need that long. Tremonti / Slash / AB albums all have winners on them, but IMO the further out we go with this polygamous relationship the more fillers and half-baked ideas we're getting. They don't need a ton of time but I think they need more than they're giving and I think some of their better ideas are getting sucked into other projects.
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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby Blackbirddd » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:01 pm

Wouldn't You Rather sounds x1000 times better on acoustic

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Re: AB VI Studio/Recording Thread

Postby RevenantGB » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:36 pm

10 minute interview, with acoustic performances of Wouldn't You Rather and In Loving Memory https://www.facebook.com/1055WDHA/video ... =2&theater
Let this be an exercise in how to face your fears
Step into the realm of madness if you dare, my dear


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