Mark's sound in live recordings

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Blackbirddd
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Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Blackbirddd » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:43 pm

It upset me a bit that everytime that Alter Bridge release a live record/DVD Mark's tone sounds awful, I know Mark's tone live sounds incredibly good, everyone who has heard him live knows that, but for some reason he always sounds pretty bad in live records (Wembley, 02, RAH).

Does Mark notice that? Because it seems incredible to me that no one does nothing about it, or maybe they cant?

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anguyen92
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby anguyen92 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:33 am

I wouldn't want to make any generalizations just yet regarding Mark's sound quality of RAH DVD, based on the Youtube video of Addicted to Pain and the official trailer, until we hear the whole show in full.

That stated, sadly, Metalingus in the Wembley and O2 shows did not sound like it was in pristine sound conditions for different reasons (too fast pacing in the Wembley DVD and too muddy for me in the O2 Live CD).

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Crumbso
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Crumbso » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 am

I don't think Mark's live tone is good at all. It's all low-end and high end, the mids don't seem to come through and you just get a boomy mess. It's alright with Tremonti in smaller venues because the volume counteracts this to a degree but in big halls with AB it just becomes a muddy dumpster fire.

Myles' tone is a bit thick and not massively articulate as well (though his playing is obviously very articulate). They both often play in similar registers and their guitar tones occupy similar frequency spectrums, so it doesn't sound great.

AB's live sound has been pretty shocking for years. It's one of the reasons I stopped seeing them live from 2011 until the RAH show (which was still pretty appalling from a sound perspective, at least where I was sitting). Other bands I've seen at this level have fantastic guitar sound and it certainly is something they need to sort, especially now Myles' voice is back on form and the tempo issues are almost completely sorted.
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chtimixeur
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby chtimixeur » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:00 am

They won't sort it, because they genuinely think it's currently great (same thing for the Elvis production or the ear-piercing album listening parties).
Mark keeps saying "it it ain't broken, don't fix it" during interviews, so I wouldn't have too much hope about an improvement of any sort.
I also remember a story on this board where someone asked the live mixing engineer about the sound issues, and the guy was extremely rude and disdainful with him.

All I know is I went to a Roger Waters concert a in a stadium a few weeks ago. From my experience, stadiums ALWAYS have a terrible sound. And guess what? The sound on that night was absolutely perfect. It was loud, but not too loud, and I could hear the subtleties of every instrument. In the end, it's all a matter of will and abilities. The AB crew seems to have none of those.

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Crumbso
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Crumbso » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:37 am

chtimixeur wrote:They won't sort it, because they genuinely think it's currently great (same thing for the Elvis production or the ear-piercing album listening parties).
Mark keeps saying "it it ain't broken, don't fix it" during interviews, so I wouldn't have too much hope about an improvement of any sort.
I also remember a story on this board where someone asked the live mixing engineer about the sound issues, and the guy was extremely rude and disdainful with him.

All I know is I went to a Roger Waters concert a in a stadium a few weeks ago. From my experience, stadiums ALWAYS have a terrible sound. And guess what? The sound on that night was absolutely perfect. It was loud, but not too loud, and I could hear the subtleties of every instrument. In the end, it's all a matter of will and abilities. The AB crew seems to have none of those.


I do agree with most of what you say. I think that probably from a stage sound perspective, everything sounds awesome to the guys. It’s just when you get to front of house, everything loses its definition.

However, I don’t think Roger Waters is a very valid comparison. The musical style is so totally different and the instruments take up different parts of the frequency spectrum so that it’s not totally relevant to compare the two.

I struggle to think of who to compare it to. I haven’t seen a stadium gig for a metal band for ages because I prefer smaller gigs these days. Kings X sounded amazing but then that was a small theatre.
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fix
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby fix » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:56 pm

This has been an annoyance of me for a long time. Especially on the faster songs Marks guitar is almost unlistenable. Live and on live recordings. AtP being one, CoA being another. It blows my mind no one has noticed it or fixed it. Maybe it’s because Mark has no in-ears? Because sometimes I feel it’s not just the sound but also his playing. I don’t doubt his playing ability, but I am frustrated that we (and him) are not getting the most out of AB’s live performances.

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Jaded Rescue » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:05 pm

So many things I want to say here, mostly echoing what others have said. I'll try to simply nail a few points:

1) Mark's tone is garbage, Myles' is only marginally better. It's not a live DVD issue. It's an issue with what Mark thinks sounds good on his amp. Same reason why every record since Blackbird has sounded progressively worse.
2) Mark plays sloppy as hell live, whether it's with Tremonti or AB. I can only excuse him for being an anxious player when performing live for so long. The dude's a professional. He needs to take a chill pill before he goes on or something, haha.
3) I don't think it's unfair to compare AB's live sound to Roger Waters. The style may be different, but the same acoustic principals will always apply. AB needs to get it together and hire some new sound people.

I didn't see them on the Fortress tour and also wasn't really impressed on The Last Hero tour. The band is mostly in a better place now in terms of performance, barring Mark needing to tighten things up, and I want to see them put on the shows I know they're capable of. They just haven't nailed it yet, and until they do I probably won't see them live. I also haven't seen Tremonti live once, because considering the style of music they're playing I'm just assuming they'll have all the same issues that AB does but even more so. I have no interest in going to concerts like those anymore.

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby MuffinMcFluffin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:07 pm

I thought y'all were talking about his vocals for a moment here, and I was like "Wait a minute..."

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby chtimixeur » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:25 am

Jaded Rescue wrote:It's an issue with what Mark thinks sounds good on his amp.

I think it's the biggest issue.
He used to have an amazing ear for clean and distorted tones, and it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Jaded Rescue » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:35 am

chtimixeur wrote:
Jaded Rescue wrote:It's an issue with what Mark thinks sounds good on his amp.

I think it's the biggest issue.
He used to have an amazing ear for clean and distorted tones, and it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Exactly. I remember him speaking in interviews about how he doesn't like to use in-ears, but uses an ear plug in one ear and nothing in the other. I can't imagine how messed up his hearing balance must be from years of that. It certainly can't be helping him pick out good tone.

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Crumbso » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:59 am

Jaded Rescue wrote:
chtimixeur wrote:
Jaded Rescue wrote:It's an issue with what Mark thinks sounds good on his amp.

I think it's the biggest issue.
He used to have an amazing ear for clean and distorted tones, and it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Exactly. I remember him speaking in interviews about how he doesn't like to use in-ears, but uses an ear plug in one ear and nothing in the other. I can't imagine how messed up his hearing balance must be from years of that. It certainly can't be helping him pick out good tone.


One of the problems here is that stage sound does not equal FOH sound. They should be separated entirely at this level so that Mark hears what he wants on stage and we get something more arena friendly up front. I get it, as a performer I feel way more comfortable having my amp behind me and feeling everything. A decent sound engineer though would take a feed from somewhere else and modify it to suit.
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby Jaded Rescue » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:17 pm

Crumbso wrote:
Jaded Rescue wrote:
chtimixeur wrote:
Jaded Rescue wrote:It's an issue with what Mark thinks sounds good on his amp.

I think it's the biggest issue.
He used to have an amazing ear for clean and distorted tones, and it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Exactly. I remember him speaking in interviews about how he doesn't like to use in-ears, but uses an ear plug in one ear and nothing in the other. I can't imagine how messed up his hearing balance must be from years of that. It certainly can't be helping him pick out good tone.


One of the problems here is that stage sound does not equal FOH sound. They should be separated entirely at this level so that Mark hears what he wants on stage and we get something more arena friendly up front. I get it, as a performer I feel way more comfortable having my amp behind me and feeling everything. A decent sound engineer though would take a feed from somewhere else and modify it to suit.

Totally agree.

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welshsteve
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby welshsteve » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:42 am

I have to agree with a lot of what's been said. I love this band, but their live sound does need sorting to more ear friendly all round the arena area. I've seen them indoors and outdoors (at Download), and depending on where you are sitting or standing, you can only make out either Myles' or Mark's guitar, especially outdoors. I know you have other things to deal with like wind outdoors, but the audience should be able to hear everything.
Thanks

Steve

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby AngusWolfe » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:39 pm

It's a big problem, and by the fact they've nearly cut him out of RAH stuff other than solos makes me hope they've noticed. Ironically, It was when they both stepped away from Mesa Boogie in an attempt to sound less like each other that it started to sound worse.

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby TenaciousBe » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:00 pm

I think the band, as a whole, has fallen so in love with their big, loud, "wall of sound" dynamic that they've forgotten how powerful real dynamics can be. It's just who they are, but they could be so much more than they are ( :humina ) if they'd tone it down a little and focus on finding a good live sound rather than worrying about how loud it is. FOH can worry about the volume, you just get up there and sound good.
Last edited by TenaciousBe on Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chtimixeur
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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby chtimixeur » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:47 am

Good points, guys.

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Re: Mark's sound in live recordings

Postby claudiocc » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:10 am

I mentioned this for years guys. I have seen AB for 44 times, and only few of them the sound was a great sound. The biggest concerned is when the support band sounds better than AB. It happened with Logan, with Black Stone Cherry, with Halestorm and smaller groups... These groups sound clear and brilliant so you tell yourself " oh cool, the acoustic in this place is awesome", and then AB play and the sounds is muggy, it is all bass and power and can´t distinguish properly. Said that, the last 4 times I saw AB, sound was a lot lot better. Now the problems shifted to Tremonti. as I saw them two weeks ago and -my God- sounds was so muggy.....
I also mentioned it in the past that if they want to headline Download, they have to sort it out. Up to them.... as the delivery to a show is for the fans, who listen, not only if they like the own sound . Mixer engineers can also manage to get the band the sound they want on stage but clean it for the audience, making it more balanced


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