Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

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FlyingMonkey97
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by FlyingMonkey97 »

Gotta try my hand at extending it now. I've done it successfully on a few song s before wondering if I can pull this off.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by Timotheus »

MuffinMcFluffin wrote:Okay, try this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1ou0pxbjtaf6 ... s.mp3?dl=0
I appreciate the effort and all, but one of the things I love so much about this song is that the third chorus is different than the other ones. It's more bombastic and passionate. Going back to the first chorus afterwards is a huge anticlimax for me, especially after that shreddy solo.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

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Ubik
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by Ubik »

Yeah, I love the lengthened "Time will tell" line closing out the lyrics as well. Properly climactic.
For all of the hope that it brings...

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Timotheus wrote:
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:Okay, try this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1ou0pxbjtaf6 ... s.mp3?dl=0
I appreciate the effort and all, but one of the things I love so much about this song is that the third chorus is different than the other ones. It's more bombastic and passionate. Going back to the first chorus afterwards is a huge anticlimax for me, especially after that shreddy solo.
I understand, and totally get what you mean.

I just remember the first couple of times I heard the song, I never felt for their final chorus to be the place where the song ended. I was left wanting more.

I don't have a different chorus to go off of that is more bombastic other than the one they have, but I just think that their final one is more attached to the bridge and solo than the end of the song.

There are a lot of songs that do this when I say, "Something's missing," and I find it. I don't know if you know the song Gravity by Sara Bareilles, but her song has the same "issue," and I tried to address that one as well. Don't know if this will show up for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvChLazEMzs

Note that I don't think every song must follow the VCVCBC format, but some lack "completeness" when they don't, and I thought this was one of those songs.

I think You Will Be Remembered is also lacking some things, but it has nothing to do with its final chorus.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by Timotheus »

MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
Timotheus wrote:
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:Okay, try this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1ou0pxbjtaf6 ... s.mp3?dl=0
I appreciate the effort and all, but one of the things I love so much about this song is that the third chorus is different than the other ones. It's more bombastic and passionate. Going back to the first chorus afterwards is a huge anticlimax for me, especially after that shreddy solo.
I understand, and totally get what you mean.

I just remember the first couple of times I heard the song, I never felt for their final chorus to be the place where the song ended. I was left wanting more.

I don't have a different chorus to go off of that is more bombastic other than the one they have, but I just think that their final one is more attached to the bridge and solo than the end of the song.

There are a lot of songs that do this when I say, "Something's missing," and I find it. I don't know if you know the song Gravity by Sara Bareilles, but her song has the same "issue," and I tried to address that one as well. Don't know if this will show up for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvChLazEMzs

Note that I don't think every song must follow the VCVCBC format, but some lack "completeness" when they don't, and I thought this was one of those songs.

I think You Will Be Remembered is also lacking some things, but it has nothing to do with its final chorus.
I love Sara Bareilles! That and She Used To Be Mine are two of my favorite songs from her.

I think it's a bit different here because in the original version there's just no third chorus, but even still I still prefer the original version. I get where you're coming from, but for me sometimes a chorus just doesn't live up to a preceding bridge, and in that case it's just better to end the song early or find a way to top the bridge. In Gravity's case I think the bridge is a beautiful climax and that last verse finishes off the song nicely.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

FlyingMonkey97
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by FlyingMonkey97 »

Alright, here's my version. Got another chorus in there after the bridge and didn't have to chop the solo up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8liz13tjxyhky ... 3.wav?dl=0

I like this a lot, although I'm still with Timotheus in that I'm not sure it trumps the original. I'll have to give it a few more listens.

EDIT: throws me off if I'm listening but not paying attention, just because i expect the song to end and it doesn't. When I listen expecting it it sounds pretty good. Guess its a case of getting used to it.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

^ Ah, thank you. See, that's what I would have preferred myself in the first place (though it is slightly broken to a point where I am ehhh on it).

I guess my problem was trying to create a second draft off my first draft, as opposed to an entirely brand new draft in itself. My first draft only included a new chorus with no new bars whatsoever, which really kind of meant I had to keep the solo split; then I decided to stick in two more bars after the chorus, keeping that split intact but delaying the end of the chorus even further still. Had I redone it, I would have done so the way that you did it. Maybe I will provide a final-final take on it that just does not have that jumble in before the chorus itself, but yours flows a bit better there for sure keeping the solo intact.

It's definitely something that I would prefer myself, but it's hard when I know that listening to the actual CD, or listening it to in concert, etc. will not provide me this treatment. It's just one of those things I have to make a conscious decision about whether I want to maintain this sound or the original sound.

There are some songs I would still prefer to apply "fixes" to as well, but some of them will be more so impossible than the others unless I was in the studio with them at the time.

And I totally understand, Timotheus. If you read my description in the Sara Bareilles song though, I was first introduced to it when I heard Alex & Sierra sing it during the X-Factor, so for them to shorten it they totally rearranged it to only have VCBC (w/ outro), even though her song is only VCVCB (w/ outro). So I heard hers for the first time with a final chorus, hence probably more than likely why I prefer the final chorus sound myself (and that plays right into what I was saying by us more than likely preferring what we hear first, at least if we were pleased with it to begin with). She Used To Be Mine is also very beautiful, and yet even though it is nice and lengthy, guess what? VCVC! Great as it is, I'm always pining for more even with that song! It's crazy how I guess I really want that epic completeness with even some of my favorite songs out there.

I likened Island of Fools to Welcome Home by Coheed and Cambra in one of my threads, but strangely enough WH does not have a final chorus after its solo. That's an example of one that I would not change, with the exception of Rock Band giving it a proper outro and sendoff versus the actual song fading out during the outro. Eh, I guess it's all just on a song-by-song basis.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by psycosquirrel789 »

Timotheus wrote:
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:Okay, try this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1ou0pxbjtaf6 ... s.mp3?dl=0
I appreciate the effort and all, but one of the things I love so much about this song is that the third chorus is different than the other ones. It's more bombastic and passionate. Going back to the first chorus afterwards is a huge anticlimax for me, especially after that shreddy solo.
The third chorus is a highlight of the record. Quintessential Alter Bridge. One of their finest moments.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

psycosquirrel789 wrote:
Timotheus wrote:
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:Okay, try this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1ou0pxbjtaf6 ... s.mp3?dl=0
I appreciate the effort and all, but one of the things I love so much about this song is that the third chorus is different than the other ones. It's more bombastic and passionate. Going back to the first chorus afterwards is a huge anticlimax for me, especially after that shreddy solo.
The third chorus is a highlight of the record. Quintessential Alter Bridge. One of their finest moments.
I don't disagree. I would never want to remove that portion! I just never felt it to be a chorus. Maybe because the words change, not sure... but it integrates so well with the bridge and is before that second solo that I'm just left wanting more in the end.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by AB4Lyfe »

psycosquirrel789 wrote:The third chorus is a highlight of the record. Quintessential Alter Bridge. One of their finest moments.
:yeahthat
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Buffon
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by Buffon »

This song had the potential to be one of their very best, but the chorus doesn't quite work for me. Too many vocal layers, and Myles sounds a bit too shrill.

Hopefully they'll change it up a bit when (if?) they play it live. Could sound better if it's sung at a lower pitch with Tremonti providing backing vocals.

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The Plotblocker
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by The Plotblocker »

Editing their songs to suit you......... That's a tad insulting to say the least. If you don't like it as it is, just don't listen. No need to fuck with another artists vision.
"Something something deny..... Something something blame..." - Myles Kennedy - Every lyric writing session.
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

The Plotblocker wrote:Editing their songs to suit you......... That's a tad insulting to say the least. If you don't like it as it is, just don't listen. No need to fuck with another artists vision.
Oh brother. Okay, I'm done here. Thank you.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by The Plotblocker »

MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
The Plotblocker wrote:Editing their songs to suit you......... That's a tad insulting to say the least. If you don't like it as it is, just don't listen. No need to fuck with another artists vision.
Oh brother. Okay, I'm done here. Thank you.
Good point. Well countered............... :facepalm
"Something something deny..... Something something blame..." - Myles Kennedy - Every lyric writing session.
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by MuffinMcFluffin »

Okay, how's this:

Don't ever have an opinion on anything distributed within the multimedia market ever again, because if it's not perfection to you then you shouldn't be able to tolerate it in any way whatsoever.

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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by The Plotblocker »

MuffinMcFluffin wrote:Okay, how's this:

Don't ever have an opinion on anything distributed within the multimedia market ever again, because if it's not perfection to you then you shouldn't be able to tolerate it in any way whatsoever.
Straw Man argument, nice choice. But no, that is not even remotely close to what I am getting at.
"Something something deny..... Something something blame..." - Myles Kennedy - Every lyric writing session.
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by Timotheus »

I don't think it's insulting at all.. If anything it's interesting. Once a song's out there, the listener is free to do what he or she wants (as long as it's legal).
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

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fix
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by fix »

Not sure if sharing it with other people over dropbox is what you call 'legal', but who am I to judge. ;)

I think the original is perfect. But if you want another chorus, you can add another chorus and listen to that. Who cares! :)

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Timotheus
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by Timotheus »

Haha yea ok. But it's not like people are gonna listen to that version over the actual version to avoid buying the album.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

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The Plotblocker
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Re: Island Of Fools is officially the best song on The Last Hero

Post by The Plotblocker »

I would care if it was my song people were fucking with! Tell me it wouldn't bother you even a little bit if you had worked hard to write and produce a song you were proud of, only to have a bunch of people (your fans no less) think they could have written it better than you? It would definitely bother me. To me, if you want music to sound a specific way, you should write your own.
"Something something deny..... Something something blame..." - Myles Kennedy - Every lyric writing session.
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