Breathe Appreciation Thread

[mikeyd23]

I think my issue here is that I had (potentially unfair) much higher hopes for Alter Bridge. I think they're capable of more than just leveling up.

I won't debate that.

[Them Bones]

Personally, I'm hearing repetitive riffs and lyrics, vocal melodies without any feel, drum beats more or less the same, noise levels increasing, pointless complexity disguised as artistry, also, it all boils down to personal tastes, but knowing these guys since 1997, atleast through their music, I think their artistic satisfaction would be something that would get translated to me as a listener as well, I guess thats what "connecting with fans " means. It hasn't happened, I like my share of "Complex music", I love Tool, but I cannot feel the new AB music.

Once again, to be fair, I could easily make the argument that ODR is waaaaay more repetitive in regards to riffs than TLH (that sorta thing doesn't matter to me that much though, there have been some great songs built around one riff). I'd also argue (and was just discussing in another thread) that Flip's drumming has continued to get more creative with each record.

"Pointless complexity disguised as artistry", oh boy... First off, I'm not sure who you or I or any other fan is to determine what component or aspect of a song written by someone else is pointless. Obviously it has a point, the songwriter(s) specifically put every verse, chorus, guitar part, fill, whatever in the song because they thought there was a point to it. Or else it wouldn't be there. And once again, not sure who we are to claim something isn't artistic because we don't like it. Those things don't equate.

I agree artistic satisfaction can be, in part, experienced from connecting the artist's intent to the fan or listener through that art (I think that's what you mean). Just be assured that some fans still feel and connect with their music.

I din't say repetitive within the song, I hear the riffs and solos on TLH inspired from their previous work when people keep saying they are progressing, flips' 4/4 is getting better? go back and listen to bound an tied or find the real. I actually don't mind riffs repeating in a song. Also, the guys used to write "songs" before as opposed to only sorting puzzles, Tremonti only recently started saying that he writes in pieces these days for the most part. I play my share of music and write myself, not implying that I know better, I can't write anything close to what these guys have written, but , I could hear genuine songs before, and now they just sound like they wanna finish recording off. I can hear complexities being added to prove a point, That they are good with their instruments, and as shown by the commercial success, it clearly is the selling point right now.(we know Tremonti wanted to get complex cuz of his peers, he has said that in interviews.) maybe am hearing wrong, but hey, i like my hearing. I can claim what I wan't to as per my personal tastes, I don't have any problem with your liking to the album.

And I agree with you, its personal choice, am no one to say the band thinks the complexities are pointless, they for me sure are cuz the band that I've been listening to since I was a kid is no more inspiring me, unless they release a song like Breathe, which is mediocre by their previous standards but far superior from their latest offering, In My Opinion.

[chtimixeur]

One thing that annoys me a bit about this band is that their words don't match their actions.
They keep saying they're writing more "progressive" records, but at the same time, they're releasing songs like My Champion, Never Die, All Ends Well, You Will Be Remembered, Make it Right...
If they genuinely see themselves are progressive artists, they should go for it big time, and make a Crack the Skye album. Now, THAT was a bold move from Mastodon.
I hear too many compromises in AB's music, and that's why their albums sometimes sound all over the place.
When you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

[The Plotblocker]

I am all for both negative a positive criticism. But recently I feel like all fan forums have become places filled with hate and pure negativity. I know this album wasn't what every one expected, but it seems like half the people posting here do not like anything about the band we are here to discuss. It's not just here either, I am a member on several other musical artist forums and a few TV show/movie ones too, and all of them are just filled with constantly negativity. I am thinking I may have to take a break from the internet to wash myself clean of it all as it is actually starting to get to me more than it should.

[mikeyd23]

I din't say repetitive within the song, I hear the riffs and solos on TLH inspired from their previous work when people keep saying they are progressing, flips' 4/4 is getting better? go back and listen to bound an tied or find the real.

I agree, I hear things on TLH that seem inspired by some previous work and, to me, that's okay. As long as they aren't blatantly repeating themselves (which some might argue they are but I don't think they are) I don't think there's anything wrong with writing new material that sounds rooted in or connected to some previous work in some way. I think that's the nature of what happens to a lot of bands the further into their catalog they get.

I actually don't mind riffs repeating in a song. Also, the guys used to write "songs" before as opposed to only sorting puzzles, Tremonti only recently started saying that he writes in pieces these days for the most part. I play my share of music and write myself, not implying that I know better, I can't write anything close to what these guys have written, but , I could hear genuine songs before, and now they just sound like they wanna finish recording off. I can hear complexities being added to prove a point, That they are good with their instruments, and as shown by the commercial success, it clearly is the selling point right now.(we know Tremonti wanted to get complex cuz of his peers, he has said that in interviews.) maybe am hearing wrong, but hey, i like my hearing. I can claim what I wan't to as per my personal tastes, I don't have any problem with your liking to the album.

I was discussing this earlier in this thread (I think, maybe it was a different thread). They are still writing songs. Their method of writing songs may have changed over the years but that doesn't mean they aren't writing songs any more. Basically, you not liking the result of a new writing method as much as an older method does not mean the end result of the newer method isn't a song. It is. That method is creating a lot of great songs over the last couple albums that a lot of people like. It's totally cool if you don't just please don't suggest that because Mark and Myles piece things together the end result isn't a song. Also, I'm not sure they are being more complex to make a point, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say they are being more complex because it satisfies them as artists.

And I agree with you, its personal choice, am no one to say the band thinks the complexities are pointless, they for me sure are cuz the band that I've been listening to since I was a kid is no more inspiring me, unless they release a song like Breathe, which is mediocre by their previous standards but far superior from their latest offering, In My Opinion.

That sucks man, I'm honestly sad to hear that you don't find inspiration in their stuff anymore. And please don't feel like I'm picking on you in anyway, I'm not. I totally respect your opinion. All I'm trying to address is this notion that I keep seeing around this forum (I've lurked on here for years before I started posting).

The notion goes something like this: I (not you I'm speaking in generality) like style of ODR. I don't like the new style of AB. Therefore they are doing something wrong. They aren't really writing songs anymore, they are being complex for the sake of it, they use to many layers, Elvis sucks, I can't hear Brian, where is Ben Gross, etc...etc.... I feel like I keep seeing this again and again here. To me it's simple, the band wants to make a different kind of music compared to what they used to make. That doesn't make it right or wrong. Better or worse. Just different and different people will take that different ways. These things seemed to get addressed in absolutes around here. It's art, there aren't really a lot of absolutes, there is a lot of opinion though.

[Jaded Rescue]

I hear too many compromises in AB's music, and that's why their albums sometimes sound all over the place.
When you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

Can't agree with this more. If AB wants to go progressive, then do it already. Shit or get off the pot. I may not love it, but I'll respect them a lot more as artists for following what they believe in.

To me it's simple, the band wants to make a different kind of music compared to what they used to make. That doesn't make it right or wrong.

I think most of us aren't trying to say that writing in a different style is wrong. We're just saying we can hear an undecided tone in what they write, and our best guess is that it's motivated by trying to please others (be it fans, critics, whomever) instead of themselves. For how much AB talks about doing things they way they want to do it, it doesn't sound like it in the music sometimes.

[mikeyd23]

I think most of us aren't trying to say that writing in a different style is wrong. We're just saying we can hear an undecided tone in what they write, and our best guess is that it's motivated by trying to please others (be it fans, critics, whomever) instead of themselves. For how much AB talks about doing things they way they want to do it, it doesn't sound like it in the music sometimes.

That right there is kinda what I am getting at. If you guys don't like some of the newer stylistic choices the band makes why does that mean their motivation is misplaced? That's an illogical jump to me, because (devil's advocate here) I could say the same thing about ODR... "I'm not really feeling this random 45 seconds of clean guitar finger picking that has nothing to do with the actual song. That's a weird stylistic choice. Seems like they have an undecided tone to what they write, I wonder who they are trying to please?"

For the record, that's not how I feel, just trying to make a point.

[The Plotblocker]

Why do they have to be "trying to please" anyone but themselves just because the style of song varies? Maybe they, like me, enjoy playing and listening to a wide variety of different styles and want to incorporate that into the albums. The mix of styles is what has always drawn me to AB, so I can;t really see a problem there.

[Timotheus]

When Tremonti released his first solo album he could've gone full shred, full trash. There were no strings attached and no expectations. He still came out with a pop trash album. It's just in his blood. I don't think he was trying to please anybody when he wrote My Champion. I think he was messing around with a new tuning and was digging the melody.

[chtimixeur]

I'm convinced My Champion was written for the radio, just like Open your Eyes and Rise Today before that.
I also suspect Never Say Die was written for the radio, but they didn't like it enough and released it as a B-Side instead.

[VigilantSteve]

I am all for both negative a positive criticism. But recently I feel like all fan forums have become places filled with hate and pure negativity. I know this album wasn't what every one expected, but it seems like half the people posting here do not like anything about the band we are here to discuss. It's not just here either, I am a member on several other musical artist forums and a few TV show/movie ones too, and all of them are just filled with constantly negativity. I am thinking I may have to take a break from the internet to wash myself clean of it all as it is actually starting to get to me more than it should.

Absolutely. I've been feeling this way about almost all online communities for a while now. It's getting quite tiring, but I think it's more of a "me" issue.

I think most of us aren't trying to say that writing in a different style is wrong. We're just saying we can hear an undecided tone in what they write, and our best guess is that it's motivated by trying to please others (be it fans, critics, whomever) instead of themselves. For how much AB talks about doing things they way they want to do it, it doesn't sound like it in the music sometimes.

That right there is kinda what I am getting at. If you guys don't like some of the newer stylistic choices the band makes why does that mean their motivation is misplaced? That's an illogical jump to me, because (devil's advocate here) I could say the same thing about ODR... "I'm not really feeling this random 45 seconds of clean guitar finger picking that has nothing to do with the actual song. That's a weird stylistic choice. Seems like they have an undecided tone to what they write, I wonder who they are trying to please?"

For the record, that's not how I feel, just trying to make a point.

Yeah, I thought the same thing a while back when I read someone's thoughts regarding the intro to a Tremonti song (which escapes me at the moment) and how it had nothing to do with the rest of the song. I mean, Mark's always been writing intros like that which effectively have nothing to do with the rest of the song, dating clear back to the Blue Collar version of What's This Life For, songs like What If?, etc. and even earlier AB songs like Broken Wings or In Loving Memory.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how much Mark's song writing methods have changed over the years...I just think his songs are more riff based than they used to be.

[mikeyd23]

When Tremonti released his first solo album he could've gone full shred, full trash. There were no strings attached and no expectations. He still came out with a pop trash album. It's just in his blood. I don't think he was trying to please anybody when he wrote My Champion. I think he was messing around with a new tuning and was digging the melody.

Trash? Come on man, don't dis Mark like that.

[Dolo]

Why do they have to be "trying to please" anyone but themselves just because the style of song varies? Maybe they, like me, enjoy playing and listening to a wide variety of different styles and want to incorporate that into the albums. The mix of styles is what has always drawn me to AB, so I can;t really see a problem there.

Absolutely not the case when it comes to TLH.

[Timotheus]

When Tremonti released his first solo album he could've gone full shred, full trash. There were no strings attached and no expectations. He still came out with a pop trash album. It's just in his blood. I don't think he was trying to please anybody when he wrote My Champion. I think he was messing around with a new tuning and was digging the melody.

Trash? Come on man, don't dis Mark like that.

I always make that mistake

[mikeyd23]

Yeah, I thought the same thing a while back when I read someone's thoughts regarding the intro to a Tremonti song (which escapes me at the moment) and how it had nothing to do with the rest of the song. I mean, Mark's always been writing intros like that which effectively have nothing to do with the rest of the song, dating clear back to the Blue Collar version of What's This Life For, songs like What If?, etc. and even earlier AB songs like Broken Wings or In Loving Memory.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how much Mark's song writing methods have changed over the years...I just think his songs are more riff based than they used to be.

To be fair, I was just using that as an example to try to make a bigger point, but I guess it can stand on it's own.

[mikeyd23]

I always make that mistake

Me too

[mikeyd23]

Why do they have to be "trying to please" anyone but themselves just because the style of song varies? Maybe they, like me, enjoy playing and listening to a wide variety of different styles and want to incorporate that into the albums. The mix of styles is what has always drawn me to AB, so I can;t really see a problem there.

Absolutely not the case when it comes to TLH.

Care to elaborate? I'm curious to hear your opinion that has once again already been stated as an absolute.

[The Plotblocker]

Absolutely. I've been feeling this way about almost all online communities for a while now. It's getting quite tiring, but I think it's more of a "me" issue.

Yeah, it may be me too. I am not in the best place right now and seem to be seeing negativity everywhere. But this isn't just a recent thing. I have noticed it gradually getting worse for the last few years now. I have just finally grown tired of it.

Why do they have to be "trying to please" anyone but themselves just because the style of song varies? Maybe they, like me, enjoy playing and listening to a wide variety of different styles and want to incorporate that into the albums. The mix of styles is what has always drawn me to AB, so I can;t really see a problem there.

Absolutely not the case when it comes to TLH.

Not sure what you mean there fella

[VigilantSteve]

Absolutely. I've been feeling this way about almost all online communities for a while now. It's getting quite tiring, but I think it's more of a "me" issue.

Yeah, it may be me too. I am not in the best place right now and seem to be seeing negativity everywhere. But this isn't just a recent thing. I have noticed it gradually getting worse for the last few years now. I have just finally grown tired of it.

100% my experience as well.

[VigilantSteve]

Yeah, I thought the same thing a while back when I read someone's thoughts regarding the intro to a Tremonti song (which escapes me at the moment) and how it had nothing to do with the rest of the song. I mean, Mark's always been writing intros like that which effectively have nothing to do with the rest of the song, dating clear back to the Blue Collar version of What's This Life For, songs like What If?, etc. and even earlier AB songs like Broken Wings or In Loving Memory.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how much Mark's song writing methods have changed over the years...I just think his songs are more riff based than they used to be.

To be fair, I was just using that as an example to try to make a bigger point, but I guess it can stand on it's own.

Yeah, I know you were, it just made me think about that again. My apologies for unintentionally derailing your point, lol