The 4th Album - FORTRESS - Discuss The Album Here!

[JaredWard]

I feel bad for Flip. Imho. he's been on the decline since Blackbird. Same fills/erratic tempo problems live. I know I sound a bit harsh but that's just my opinion.

[Timotheus]

Awyea, I think every member in the band should feel good about every song on the record. If somebody isn't sure of a track, don't put it on the album. There were some of those on ABIII

But then we wouldn't have gotten Life Must Go On, which is one of my favorite ballads they've written. I see where you're coming from, but it has pros as well as cons.

Good point

[AB23]

can we just go back to alter bridges origin in 04 for Christ's sake?

[TenaciousBe]

Oddly enough, I think Flip's drumming sounds a bit tighter on the new Projected tunes, where it was meant to just be some friends getting together to jam and they ended up deciding to do a full release of it. Maybe that's just the difference in the other musicians around him?

[sumanth]

New producer.
More variation in songs in terms of the structure.
And Flip needs to tighten up a bit. He's still got a few really good parts down on AB III, but not much in terms of improvement from BB. Whereas, when you compare BB to ODR, his drumming seems to have gotten a lot better.

A new producer should do the trick. But the probability of that happening seem very less. Add an album around the length of 50 minutes to a new producer and we'd have a a killer 4th album.

[BSC]

I haven't heard enough of Garrett's drumming to make a fair judgement, I've only heard what he's done on what we've heard from All I Was, while I dislike his use of double bass in parts he does seem like quite a tight drummer in comparison to Flip, just because the You Waste Your Time video is pretty spot on tempo wise, but as I said I haven't heard enough really.

I haven't heard any of Projected either, so I'll give that a listen.

[Decay]

Yup, agree with sumanth here.

They definitely need a NEW producer and they also need to take the time to write the next record, not to force it like they did with AB III. AB III is/was a great record, but if they actually took the time to do it, it could've been 10x better.

Also, more Myles on lead gtr, more Mark on vocals. The guy is a fucking beast.
B Marsh's bass has to be heard a lil bit more, he's playing on the records but his instrument ain't there properly. As for Flip, well I love his drumming style, he's awesome knowing that he doesn't practice at all.

- A song or two like Blackbird and Brand New Start wouldn't hurt as well, would love to hear some ballads like Watch Over You or Wonderful Life as well, Myles would just shine vocally. Another thing, when they create songs like Isolation or Ties That Bind, Myles can't fn' breathe during live shows, that's why he doesn't sound so great on those heavy songs (I mean, I love AB's heavy stuff and would be cool to have it on the new record, but what's the point if Myles can't pull it off live, or I don't know, maybe he's just being lazy)

I think that's pretty much it.
Can't wait for AB IV!

[RuRo]

Obviously I just want a good album, and I think that will come about just by them making whatever songs they want and think sound good rather than necessarily through traits I might think I'd like. But nevertheless, some traits I feel like I'd like to see most or would be most happy about if I heard they were doing them:

- Another longer song in the vein of Blackbird. I think it was maybe a good idea not to try to do something like Blackbird on the next album since it'd feel like they were trying to top themselves with another "epic" that inevitably wouldn't be better, but I think now they can give it another try. Personally I'd be thrilled if they were doing a 10 minute song or something but it doesn't need to go that far.
- More guitar solos that are central to the song, like on Blackbird. AB III had some good guitar solos but it felt like they were mostly just stuck on at the end of songs and felt no where near as memorable / important as those in Blackbird, Wayward One, Brand New Start.
- More songs with different song structures, and maybe a little longer as well. Not necessarily multiple songs that are 7 minutes + but maybe a few more in the 5-6 minute range that veer away from "verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge" etc.
- More soloing / instrumentals in general, that last a little longer and have a few different parts in it. I want to hear more Myles soloing, but I want to hear him doing something that it feels like he could do best and that adds to the song, rather than just having him doing the solo in songs where Mark may as well have done it. More along the lines of Blackbird with Myles doing the quieter first part of the solo, less along the lines of Isolation with Myles doing an average fast paced metal solo where Mark could have done something just as good or better.
- More "experimental" songs for them, like Slip To The Void
- More heavy songs like Ties That Bind, White Knuckles, and more slightly epic songs like The End Is Here. Less stuff like Before Tomorrow Comes.

Basically I'd just like them to feel comfortable enough to try some different things and songs that might not seem like they'd go down so well from a commercial standpoint. Trust that their fans will appreciate a longer song, an instrumental, something that varies between extremely heavy and balladish, whatever... don't feel like they have to keep the structures familiar, keep the solos to a minimum, and include too several mid-paced melodic rockers with soaring choruses which they consider to be "radio friendly" ones to keep people happy.

Of course if they really do feel like they could do all that but just don't want to, that's fair enough - I personally would be a little disappointed but I still absolutely love the music they put out as is. I just wish there was some way for the fanbase to make clear that we really would be thrilled if they did some less accessible things, or at the very least we would be more than willing to give it a try.

[Heretic]

I thought a lot of the songs on ABIII and Blackbird were just kind of... there because they needed to be. Lots of the song structures were the same, too.

I feel like AB needs to stop trying so hard to be "heavy" because imo they were at their best on One Day Remains-- the heavier parts weren't heavy just for the sake of being heavy, and the variety was a lot better. More emotion in the songs, too. I do like their more progressive songs (Blackbird, Slip to the Void) and if they went in that direction I'd be okay with it.

I agree with RuRo that they need to try less accessible things, and just make the music naturally, not necessarily what they "think" people want or what they "think" will be popular.

Either way they're still a great band and probably the best modern hard rock band, but I feel that it's time for some evolution!

[AB23]

and to sum things up, breathe again is the epitome of alter bridges future. have a great night

[RuRo]

I feel like AB needs to stop trying so hard to be "heavy" because imo they were at their best on One Day Remains-- the heavier parts weren't heavy just for the sake of being heavy, and the variety was a lot better.

Out of curiosity, what are the songs they try too hard to be "heavy" (or generally what heavy stuff do you not think is as good)? I see people criticise them for stuff like this on occasion but from what I've seen their heavy songs usually seem to be well recieved, so I'm not sure exactly what people don't like when they say that. Maybe it's just something I disagree with since Ties That Bind and White Knuckles are some of my favourites.

I do like their more progressive songs (Blackbird, Slip to the Void) and if they went in that direction I'd be okay with it.

I was thinking recently of what the most popular Alter Bridge songs would be and couldn't think what would come after Blackbird, until I remembered Slip To The Void. Lots of people seem to want more stuff in the vein of those two (me included). Hopefully Alter Bridge can pull it off.

(Speaking of which, I'd love to see an Alter Bridge Survivor done here).

I agree with RuRo that they need to try less accessible things, and just make the music naturally, not necessarily what they "think" people want or what they "think" will be popular.

Obviously I don't know what's in the bands' heads when they make the music and I hate it when people make up motivations for them, but I feel like this is a problem especially because Mark is stuck in the mindset from his Creed days, where he had darker / heavier / more complex stuff on the albums while striking it big on the radio with stuff like With Arms Wide Open and Higher. You see it when they talk about the ligher stuff as being "possible radio singles", when in reality now it's actually the rockers that will appeal to the type of people who will actually hear their music. Notice how Metalingus, not Open Your Eyes, is probably the most successful song at gaining new fans, and that Isolation was the single that did well rather than, say, Rise Today.

But anyway, that's my theory - they keep doing more songs like that partly because, in Mark Tremonti's mind at least, songs like those = broader appeal and accessability. But maybe I'm just biased because I dislike songs like Before Tomorrow Comes.

[Ubik]

Awyea, I think every member in the band should feel good about every song on the record. If somebody isn't sure of a track, don't put it on the album. There were some of those on ABIII

But then we wouldn't have gotten Life Must Go On, which is one of my favorite ballads they've written. I see where you're coming from, but it has pros as well as cons.

You still would've got it though, it just wouldn't be a proper album track. In fact, if they're a bit more picky about it then the inevitable "deluxe" edition of the album could have 5 or 6 bonus tracks on it, rather than 2 or 3, which might make it a more interesting proposition to buy.

That all said, wasn't Myles unsure about Slip to the Void? Or was that just in its formative stages? If that hadn't made the album, it would be bizarre.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with what abw said.

[nagpo]

I'm hearing some of you say you want Mark to sing more...why? He can not compare to Myles in any way. Why have a singer like Myles and not use him to full capacity? Mark is an okay singer that's good at singing his own solo stuff. But Alter Bridge is much bigger than that. Singing is not Marks strength.


I've also heard some complaints about the formats of the songs. Where does this come from? Has AB ever once declared that they were going to experiment or change the standard writing format for songs? Has that ever been a mission of theirs? Perhaps such complaints are unjustified. Especially when just about every other artist out there uses the same format. Why do you expect AB to be the innovator of a new age of metal/hard rock?

I'm not saying they shouldn't experiment, but many don't and I don't remember it being the driving agenda in the band.

But I do agree with getting a new producer...

[psycosquirrel789]

^ I think a lot of us feel that way because we know the potential in these guys. They are not just studio musicians and their albums don't reflect their full abilities as song writers. I just want them to stop holding back and confining themselves to these useless structures. The songs are almost robotic. They need some soul and feeling.

[RuRo]

I've also heard some complaints about the formats of the songs. Where does this come from? Has AB ever once declared that they were going to experiment or change the standard writing format for songs? Has that ever been a mission of theirs?

"So, what would you like to see Alter Bridge do in their next album?"
"Well, I would quite like to see them do A."
"I see. Has Alter Bridge ever said they were going to do A?"
"Well, no... but that wasn't the ques-"
"THEN WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THEM DO IT?!"

[nagpo]

I see your point, but I meant generally WHY were these complaints legitimate. Not in the same subtext or meaning as the OPs. I've heard this complaint outside of this thread and I just wanted to acknowledge it and this was the thread that seemed best to do so.

[psycosquirrel789]

I understand your point as well. We all became fans without them doing that, so why should we expect it...

But also they shouldn't just rest on their laurels because that's how they started. They are a radio band, and always will be. Mark will always write radio songs. But they could do a little more to push some boundaries. Let's take it to the next level. But I think that can be said for any band. I think wanting a band to do fresh things is always valid.

[RuRo]

I see your point, but I meant generally WHY were these complaints legitimate. Not in the same subtext or meaning as the OPs. I've heard this complaint outside of this thread and I just wanted to acknowledge it and this was the thread that seemed best to do so.

Yeah I know it has been said outside of this thread as well. I only meant my post jokingly and am glad you weren't too offended.

I personally would quite like to see them write songs in less standard structures, because I think that Alter Bridge is possibly the single best band in terms of how the music actually sounds (i.e. I like a passage of Alter Bridge music more than a passge of music by most other bands), but I also really like songs that I feel take me on a journey, that have various twists and turns, that have lots of distinct sections to them that keep the song interesting. So since I love Alter Bridge's music, I'd like to see a song like that made up of Alter Bridge music, since I think it would work well. That doesn't necessarily mean I expect that they actually will, it's just what I'd like to see.

But even if I don't expect some sort of Alter Bridge meets Dream Theater album, I would still like (and believe it's perfectly plausible) songs that deviate a little more from the set structure, because I find it difficult to become as interested in songs that have a very simple structure. And even though Alter Bridge is usually good enough to make me love songs of the same format as other hard rock songs that don't interest me, it might get a little boring if they become too similar.

And by the way, I'm definitely not someone that thinks the songs are currently soulless and robotic and confined to useless structures. ODR was (and still is) one of my favourite albums ever, but I think Alter Bridge have only improved since then, and I think many songs currently don't have structures that are too similar or boring. And even if the structure is completely standard, that doesn't mean the song isn't amazing (Ties That Bind is one of my favourite Alter Bridge songs after all). I just think that, in general, it's the songs that are a bit different that are their best, that more variety will keep things more interesting, and, since my personal tastes tend towards music a little more complicated than most Alter Bridge, I'd personally love to see them go further towards that.

[Andy92]

I think the main consensus is that we know these guys are even more talented than some of their recent material reflects. I thought AB III was a solid record with good tracks on it, but it's probably the worst of the 3 overall. If they continue with the same formulas on the next album, I'm sure I'd still be pleased overall with what they come up with, but I think most of us realize this band can be even better than they have been of late.

[AB23]

they try to hard to implement new things in their albums. honestly, id be perfectly fine with 3 ODR like albums. the song writing is good, the music is good, and myles sounds great.