Rarities & B-Sides

[Crumbso]

The producer has a much bigger effect than you'd think. If someone isn't there to suggest adding something in the first place, or champion a certain approach then you get a very very different product. I've produced with a couple of bands, although granted it's nothing compared to Elvis's back catalogue, and I found you can have a lot of control with how things sound. From the instruments' sounds themselves via micing, compression/limiting or post effects through to directions during takes.

I know the band has said that Elvis has a big input during pre-production in terms of arrangement and song selection. I think that CTL and BA are signs of that.

I don't think many people REALLY hate Elvis but I for one do wish they abandoned a lot of the traits that appeared when they adopted Elvis as their producer, and that have gotten stronger from 2nd to 3rd album.

Also, these guys are just people at the end of the day. I stopped attending AB shows after their Apollo appearance in London because I just don't feel they sound as good as they used to and I don't enjoy the gigs with muddy sound, missed parts/vocal issues and tempo problems. I attended 8 different AB shows previous to that and I still love their music but it's entirely probable they like the direction the records and shows are taking, but I believe with some direction from another producer or sound guy that they can make the classic record and fantastic shows that a lot of us believe they have it in them to make.

Like I said I love AB, I do, it's just that if their output is not entirely to my liking then this is the place to express that. Hopefully I do it respectfully but I don't think it's entirely unfair to express dissatisfaction with what we believe to be the cause of the problem.

[psycosquirrel789]

Wow, well said!!!

I just prefer 'Elvis sucks' lol

[Crumbso]

Well... yeah... but, you know!

[abw1987]

Good post Crumbso. You are always welcome to express your opinions here. I'm just glad we can have civilized discussion without hurling insults or taking things too personally.

I understand what you're saying about the significance of a producer's influence. I don't doubt that at all. I just believe that if Alter Bridge weren't happy with his results, they would have fired him. When they got the final mastered version of Blackbird, had they not liked it, they could have chosen to not release the album, and get someone else to mix/master it. But that's not what happened. They were very proud of the album, and they released it. And even if they felt it was too late to do that, they could have dropped Elvis and chosen to work with someone new for AB III. It's not like Elvis has got some spell over the guys where they will do his bidding and never think of working with another producer. It's their choice, and they seem to be very happy with the direction Elvis is taking the band.

I agree with a lot of what you say about their live shows. (The muddy sound, the rushed tempo, etc.) That's an entirely different topic altogether, IMO. Elvis has very little, if anything, to do with how they choose to conduct their live shows. That said, I still think they put on a fantastic live show that bests a large majority of current rock bands, but of course we all have our own opinions about what could be improved.

[BSC]

I understand what's been said regarding the guys having influence over the production, and I don't doubt that at all. My knowledge of recording process is very limited, but Elvis is still the guy that produces the albums, he's still responsible for the horrible sounding AB albums, littered with vocal echo, whether the guys wanted that or not, as surely he's the one that put all that in there?

I wish I had the terminology and knowledge to describe it a bit better, but at the end of the day I'll still dislike the production of BB and AB3, regardless of whether Elvis is to blame for it or not.

[Andy92]

Elvis produced BB and AB III, but he didn't mix them. So I'm not sure who made the call for using echos and other effects.

[AB23]

i hate listening to the echos in the chorus of make it right. its WAY too much

[psycosquirrel789]

^ Yeah and One By One.

Anyone know who mixed ABIII?

[Andy92]

According to the Wiki page for AB III, it was a man named Brian Sperber. But the citation for that has an invalid URL now.

[psycosquirrel789]

Now I'm curious as to his input to the record.

[Andy92]

Found this quote from an interview with Myles back in 2010. The interviewer asked him about his solo album.

Yeah, I was just finishing it when Slash called me last year. I recorded it in this little studio in Idaho. It was my first time kind of co-producing. I worked with Brian Sperber, who mixed the last two Alter Bridge records, and he did a great job on it. I'm pretty proud of the album. It's probably a little more singer-songwriter oriented than what people have heard from me before. There's piano on it, and it's a little more intimate sounding. I'm thinking of putting it out on December 21, 2012.

So it looks like he also mixed Myles' solo album, or what's finished of it. I can't find much information on him. He is credited for the mixing on AB III and BB though.

[psycosquirrel789]

I know that Evlis worked on Myles' Second Skin. Which to me, is plagued by the same issues as AB III and Blackbird. The vocal effects, wall of sound, synthetic commercial gloss.. ect. That's why I think Elvis is the one pushing for that stuff. It should be a crime to put any vocal effects on Myles. But I still wonder if Sperber contributed to those decisions.

[psycosquirrel789]

I know that Evlis worked on Myles' Second Skin. Which to me, is plagued by the same issues as AB III and Blackbird. The vocal effects, wall of sound, synthetic commercial gloss.. ect. That's why I think Elvis is the one pushing for that stuff. It should be a crime to put any vocal effects on Myles. But I still wonder if Sperber contributed to those decisions.

[Andy92]

If we ever get to hear Myles solo album, that might clear some things up.

[Crumbso]

Hey abw1987, I know what you're saying. I totally agree that the guys in the band are happy with the way the records turned out. I'm not arguing against that. I also know that Elvis doesn't influence the live shows directly but with the songs from ABIII containing so many layers and effects it means that they really don't transfer that well to live shows. Add that to the live sound in general and it doesn't bode too well. I listened to the CD audio from Live at Wembley and on Isolation you can't even hear the main riff.

It's not that he is a dictator to the band but I do believe that he is an influence in championing certain ideas as the producer, with the arrangements and post effects. I just wish for a more traditional approach to making an album rather than a collection of modern rock songs. I appreciate that Elvis is very adept as a producer at making shorter songs sound big and complex for immediate consumption, something maybe better suited to Creed or Marks solo album (Which I'm actually very impressed with soundwise, so far). The thing is that after songs that showed so much promise artistically and instrumentally like Blackbird, Brand New Start and the original version of Buried Alive there should be someone that encourages them to branch out structure wise, grow artistically and perhaps let their music shine more naturally than with all the effects.

If AB continued in the same vain I wouldn't hate them or stop buying their records but they really could be a Led Zeppelin of our age... mind you even Zep didn't really start getting truly ambitious till their 4th album.

[Crumbso]

My impression is that they have the producer that has overall creative control, after the band of course, then the responsibility of the technical side of mixing goes to the mix engineer. It's probably just a case of Brian Sperber doing the tedious work of getting the levels right etc.

Of course I don't actually know but that just seems to be the impression I'm getting.

[devv88]

Nice to see some rational discussion going on around here.

I agree that there are increasingly significant problems with both the in-studio and live aspects of Alter Bridge's output over the last few years, and though I'm not bothered by the in-studio issues as much as others are, I'd love to see them shake things up a bit and move in a slightly different direction. I like the way the band has progressed artistically, but I can't help but feel that they're not pushing themselves in any significant way, and I'd really like to see them do so. Seems like it's the right time to shake things up dramatically.

[psycosquirrel789]

A while back Myles did say that they were looking to "push the limits" with the next release. I hope that wasn't just press talk.

[Ubik]

I know that Evlis worked on Myles' Second Skin. Which to me, is plagued by the same issues as AB III and Blackbird. The vocal effects, wall of sound, synthetic commercial gloss.. ect. That's why I think Elvis is the one pushing for that stuff. It should be a crime to put any vocal effects on Myles. But I still wonder if Sperber contributed to those decisions.

Myles also worked on Second Skin, could be him doing it all! Fallout's probably my favourite album in terms of vocals that Myles has done, seem to remember he had an interesting guy as producer for that, used to be in the Talking Heads I think? Made him run up and down a flight of stairs before recording the title track

[phatnonphatness]

If AB continued in the same vain I wouldn't hate them or stop buying their records but they really could be a Led Zeppelin of our age... mind you even Zep didn't really start getting truly ambitious till their 4th album.

I used to think that too, but it seems they've settled into the sound they were after and I don't see them deviating too much from it. Still good music, but it clearly won't stand the test of time.