Alter Bridge - Live At The Royal Albert Hall

[TremontiFan4Life]

I don't think Myles' guitar is too loud for my liking. I do however think that the orchestra is definitely not loud enough. I keep thinking that it is because I don't have 5.1 audio but I haven't seen anyone say (at least yet) that it sounds better on an actual 5.1 set up. I would definitely have preferred them to turn the orchestra up a lot more

[Greenster]

I’m watching it on blu-ray with Dolby 5.1 and the mix sounds just fine to me. Superb actually! Far, far better than live at the O2.

Such an amazing live performance. Best they have done.

[Greenster]

On another note; People are actually comparing this to S & M which had the best rock band on the planet, with one of the best composers, and a world class orchestra. Geez.
Take it for what it is and just enjoy it.

[alterswede]

Just finished with the bluray. The sound is fantastic with the right setup. Im using Sonos beam, sub and two One's as surround and i couldnt be happier. Alright, its an 1600$+ setup but it sound amazing. One thing - the sound from the orchestra comes from the surround speakers in an 5.1 configuration. Main band from center and front L+R. If you want more sound from the Orchestra, just rise the volume (for the surround speakers)

[Andy92]

Just finished with the bluray. The sound is fantastic with the right setup. Im using Sonos beam, sub and two One's as surround and i couldnt be happier. Alright, its an 1600$+ setup but it sound amazing. One thing - the sound from the orchestra comes from the surround speakers in an 5.1 configuration. Main band from center and front L+R. If you want more sound from the Orchestra, just rise the volume (for the surround speakers)

See, this is the part people need to realize. You can use an audio amp to mix your speaker levels to crank the audio of the orchestra (if that’s what you want) and not the band’s volume as long as you realize where the orchestra’s sound is primarily coming from. You can’t hear 55 instruments through 1-2 speakers. 6 speakers is still pretty minimal all things considered, but it still sounds really good in 5.1.

I realize not everyone has this kind of home entertainment setup, but it really does make a world of different when you’re dealing with this many instruments.

[anguyen92]

The problem with that, Andy, is that we live in a world where everyone expects to hear clear, crisp, perfect sound with nothing more than a decent computer or mobile phone. No one wants to spend more money on equipment to attain that sort of sound. I don't blame them. They feel like they shouldn't have to do that to hear every nuances clearly. They feel like it is on the band or the mixer to accomplish that and for the most part, I think the rational is justified (especially with everyone being very grumbly about Mark's tone).

[Andy92]

The problem with that, Andy, is that we live in a world where everyone expects to hear clear, crisp, perfect sound with nothing more than a decent computer or mobile phone. No one wants to spend more money to attain that sort of sound. They feel like they shouldn't have to do that to hear every nuances clearly. They feel like it is on the band or the mixer to accomplish that and for the most part, I think the rational is justified (especially with everyone being very grumbly about Mark's tone).

In people’s defense, I think the orchestra should be higher in the standard mix that was released. But at the same time, you do want the band to be front and center with the orchestra accenting and filling out the performance. My reply was basically just to agree with the point that was made above. If you want the orchestra to sound louder, you can raise the volume levels yourself with a proper amp.

[ABGreg86]

Anyone else waiting on their orders from the AB store? Im reading all the great reviews and im going nuts that my order isnt here yet...

[Jamiep]

OMG the blu ray is amazing! I have Sonos 5.1 and the orchestra is incredible and complements the songs beautifully. Truly moving show. I was there too! Alter Bridge get better and better every time i hear their songs.

[Electricladyland]

My earbook arrives tomorrow! I can't wait!

[richardsim7]

So, I've got lots of thoughts, but my main one is: where the hell is the bass?! I boosted my sub 6dB and even then it was way too quiet.
Not trying to show off, but my setup is pretty killer, and will convince you the house is collapsing at times. But wow, the bass was so quiet, easily 10-15dB quieter than it should have been, not to mention this huge rolloff. This is the DTS-HD MA track btw, I'm yet to check the others

Just look at this!



For comparison, here's RAH compared with Live at Wembley:



huge difference!

FYI the low E on a bass guitar is about 41Hz, hence why you can barely hear Brian Marshall

[anguyen92]

In people’s defense, I think the orchestra should be higher in the standard mix that was released. But at the same time, you do want the band to be front and center with the orchestra accenting and filling out the performance. My reply was basically just to agree with the point that was made above. If you want the orchestra to sound louder, you can raise the volume levels yourself with a proper amp.

I can agree with that. My worst fear for AB's live DVD was exactly what happened to me when I saw Evanescence last week. Evanescence played with an orchestra and honestly, with the exception of the encore (which was a cover of Ozzy Osbourne's No More Tears), I didn't hear any guitars at all. It was mainly Amy Lee singing Evanescence songs with an orchestra (which is not a terrible concept at all, don't get me wrong, but I was expecting something else). What I was hoping for with the Royal Albert Hall DVD is AB being in the forefront with the orchestra as backing (but still making their presence felt) rather than the other way around. I will hope that is the case when I watch the standard DVD tonight.

[richardsim7]

Here's a breakdown of the track waveforms, not sure why they bothered having an LFE track at all

[Andy92]

Those waveforms are pretty interesting when you see the visual breakdown. I could hear Brian pretty well, but I didn’t think too much about it because I have my sub turned up compared to other speakers. Maybe we need to start an #AndJusticeForBrian hashtag...

[richardsim7]

From isolating the tracks, it seems the centre channel was mostly Myles vocals + Brian's bass. But there's just no low-end at all

[TremontiFan4Life]

Here's a breakdown of the track waveforms, not sure why they bothered having an LFE track at all

Here's a question,

Say someone had the time on their hands necessary to do this, could someone take the waveforms and kind of re-master them using audacity? Turning up more of what we want to hear and turning down what we don't?

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Here's a breakdown of the track waveforms, not sure why they bothered having an LFE track at all

Here's a question,

Say someone had the time on their hands necessary to do this, could someone take the waveforms and kind of re-master them using audacity? Turning up more of what we want to hear and turning down what we don't?

Turning down? Sure. Turning up? You'll introduce distortion. You can also try and re-mix to other channels but you won't be able to separate what is in an individual channel. To make matters worse, you can't maintain lossless/24-bit audio with Audacity. You'll be losing a lot of data from that alone.

I'm not willing to do all of that and use one of my BD-R's for the disc. Well, maybe I am... I haven't heard it yet. I was about to do an audio analysis when I got it as well, but thankfully richardsim7 already took care of that.

By the way RS7, what's your setup?

[richardsim7]

You'd only introduce distortion if you went beyond certain levels, right?
And what makes you say that Audacity can't do 24bit?

I EQ'd all the tracks a bit, and just tested it out, it helps a lot but not quite there yet, need to play around some more:



Anyone who's seen them live knows there's big bass drops that go right through you when they play Addicted to Pain, you can now hear them again! They were completely missing before. The overall bass level is still quite low so will try fix that later today. I'm having to rely on bass being redirected from my speakers to the subs, as there's basically nothing in the LFE channel to work with, but will try boost that a bit and see what happens

My setup is XTZ Cinema Series (7.2.4) with a NAD T758v3
2x DIY 15" subs and 2x Buttkicker LFEs

So yeah, when there's bass, you know about it, and definitely notice when it's missing

[MuffinMcFluffin]

You'd only introduce distortion if you went beyond certain levels, right?

I'm a firm believer that once you create elements that aren't there, unless said program is insanely good at extrapolating information, that doing something like that is never a sound idea (pun intended). I think you'll introduce distortion regardless of how much you amplify the sound. Whether or not your human ear will be able to perceive it is a completely different story, so it may work out for you.

I think the better bet would be to lower the other levels, and as long as you aren't at 75dB reference level (if that's what you calibrated your system to) you can just try turning up the volume from the receiver and see how that sounds.

And what makes you say that Audacity can't do 24bit?

I take that back, it might be able to do 24-bit audio. However, it doesn't allow to save into a lossless codec such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. I once tried to save a file as PCM or something and attempt to use when burning to disc (I believe it was for Dunkirk), and something didn't really work out right. I forget what it was, it was long ago. According to my Google searching, the only way to really get what I wanted from that was to purchase a program that can save into one of those lossless formats. Again, I forget the program. I'll look at all of this when I get my order that I just placed with Amazon this morning.

I EQ'd all the tracks a bit, and just tested it out, it helps a lot but not quite there yet, need to play around some more:



Anyone who's seen them live knows there's big bass drops that go right through you when they play Addicted to Pain, you can now hear them again! They were completely missing before. The overall bass level is still quite low so will try fix that later today. I'm having to rely on bass being redirected from my speakers to the subs, as there's basically nothing in the LFE channel to work with, but will try boost that a bit and see what happens

Good looking out! Yeah, screw "artist intent" if it doesn't represent the live performance you know that you've heard with your own ears. You can bet I'll be fiddling with all of this a lot too when I rip the disc to my HDD.

My setup is XTZ Cinema Series (7.2.4) with a NAD T758v3
2x DIY 15" subs and 2x Buttkicker LFEs

So yeah, when there's bass, you know about it, and definitely notice when it's missing

Awesome! I only have one subwoofer at the moment because of my current living space (used to have two SVS PC13-Ultras), but for my receiver I'm rocking an Anthem MRX-720, then Klipsch Reference II Series all the way around (center is the RC-62 II, fronts the RF-82 II's, and surrounds the RS-62 II's).

Anthem receivers come with calibration software called ARC which frankly is the best I've ever experienced, so much better than anything Audyssey has ever put out. It understands the idea of targeting to a house curve (slightly higher lows and lower highs) instead of being completely flat and sounding harsh/bright, and is able to smooth out the response from 15Hz-15kHz (my sub starts to roll off at 15Hz). Definitely can't wait to hear this though, and like you are doing I can't wait to play with the balance of the channels.

[richardsim7]

You'd only introduce distortion if you went beyond certain levels, right?

I'm a firm believer that once you create elements that aren't there, unless said program is insanely good at extrapolating information, that doing something like that is never a sound idea (pun intended). I think you'll introduce distortion regardless of how much you amplify the sound. Whether or not your human ear will be able to perceive it is a completely different story, so it may work out for you.

I think the better bet would be to lower the other levels, and as long as you aren't at 75dB reference level (if that's what you calibrated your system to) you can just try turning up the volume from the receiver and see how that sounds.

Well there seems to be plenty of headroom to play around with, and I made sure no clipping occurs

And what makes you say that Audacity can't do 24bit?

I take that back, it might be able to do 24-bit audio. However, it doesn't allow to save into a lossless codec such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. I once tried to save a file as PCM or something and attempt to use when burning to disc (I believe it was for Dunkirk), and something didn't really work out right. I forget what it was, it was long ago. According to my Google searching, the only way to really get what I wanted from that was to purchase a program that can save into one of those lossless formats. Again, I forget the program. I'll look at all of this when I get my order that I just placed with Amazon this morning.

But it does support FLAC
I used eac3to to convert the DTS-HD MA track to 6-channel FLAC, no quality loss necessary

I EQ'd all the tracks a bit, and just tested it out, it helps a lot but not quite there yet, need to play around some more:



Anyone who's seen them live knows there's big bass drops that go right through you when they play Addicted to Pain, you can now hear them again! They were completely missing before. The overall bass level is still quite low so will try fix that later today. I'm having to rely on bass being redirected from my speakers to the subs, as there's basically nothing in the LFE channel to work with, but will try boost that a bit and see what happens

Good looking out! Yeah, screw "artist intent" if it doesn't represent the live performance you know that you've heard with your own ears. You can bet I'll be fiddling with all of this a lot too when I rip the disc to my HDD.

I'm all for artist/director's intent, I have my TV and sound system calibrated to reference. But there's a difference between "artist intent" and "someone royally fucked up"
I added this ridiculous looking EQ curve to all 6 channels, and boosted the LFE channel 6dB (though that probably did nothing in reality)



It's all sounding much better, the songs have "weight" again

My AVR allows me to temporarily adjust levels so I bumped up the surrounds 2dB and that makes the orchestra stand out a little more which is nice (people aren't wrong when they say the orchestra is mixed too low, and Myles' guitar isn't too loud, Mark's guitar is just way too quiet!)

My setup is XTZ Cinema Series (7.2.4) with a NAD T758v3
2x DIY 15" subs and 2x Buttkicker LFEs

So yeah, when there's bass, you know about it, and definitely notice when it's missing

Awesome! I only have one subwoofer at the moment because of my current living space (used to have two SVS PC13-Ultras), but for my receiver I'm rocking an Anthem MRX-720, then Klipsch Reference II Series all the way around (center is the RC-62 II, fronts the RF-82 II's, and surrounds the RS-62 II's).

Anthem receivers come with calibration software called ARC which frankly is the best I've ever experienced, so much better than anything Audyssey has ever put out. It understands the idea of targeting to a house curve (slightly higher lows and lower highs) instead of being completely flat and sounding harsh/bright, and is able to smooth out the response from 15Hz-15kHz (my sub starts to roll off at 15Hz). Definitely can't wait to hear this though, and like you are doing I can't wait to play with the balance of the channels.

Yeah the NAD has Dirac Live room correction, which as far as I'm concerned is just pure magic