"Show Me a Leader" discussion

[Timotheus]

It's a middle-of-the-pack song for me as well, but somehow I still look at it with really high regards. It's one of the first Alter Bridge songs I really loved, and that bridge made me fall in love with Myles' voice.

[Andy92]

You wonder why everyone loves Open Your Eyes?

I don't, I skip it most of the time.

Way to add to the conversation Lotha. Just blatantly crush the poor guy's statement.

[Nicklord]

And here we go 47th currently

http://hitsdailydouble.com/mediabase_ch ... ils&fmt=R2

[Lotha]

You wonder why everyone loves Open Your Eyes?

I don't, I skip it most of the time.

Way to add to the conversation Lotha. Just blatantly crush the poor guy's statement.

[pokefan_4]

And here we go 47th currently

http://hitsdailydouble.com/mediabase_ch ... ils&fmt=R2

Pop Evil is such a shitty band.. it baffles me how those guys have made it

[Sunrunner1]

Does anyone else find Myles' first verse in SMAL more slash-y than the rest of the song? The way he says "selling" at the beginning has been particularly bugging me. It's a shame, because I really like everything leading up to that point and the majority of the song afterwards.

It definitely sounds Slash-y, but once we got the full song that feeling wore off a bit more thankfully.

I've been listening to everything AB lately, and ODR/Blackbird have a far different sound than ABIII/Fortress, and I'm referring to the mixing. Myles feels a lot more in the forefront with the first two albums, barely harmonizing in choruses (especially with himself lol) and ranging his voice a lot more within a song. Some calmer verses, as well. I miss that.

You wonder why everyone loves Open Your Eyes? It's a track that hits peaks and valleys, the mood fits the lyrics, the breaks and solos are very evenly paced out. I want them to find their next Open Your Eyes. I don't mean it has to be radio-friendly, I just mean that it needs that next signature sound. Only that song and Blackbird have been the two "epics" to me that they have put out. I love everything else they have to offer, but nothing has stood out like these two tracks have, and I don't even think it's close.

I agree about the dynamic nature of the first albums vocally, though I feel like Myles (vocally) was even more in the forefront with Fortress, (to the point of being almost distracting sometimes tbh.)

I think my biggest issue in the case of "Show Me a Leader" is his loose pronunciation of things. (i.e. I keep hearing "who's intentions go unpersuaded" in the second verse, and I never am quite sure what to make of the last phrase of the bridge leading into the solo. "all alone, on our own, all night long?" and that's after having seen the lyrics)

Also, this is probably a silly question but... As far as the OYE statements go, did I say something to bring up that particular song? I'm figuring it was just an example you felt best illustrated the point, but that bit kind of threw me at first reading the response.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Open Your Eyes is a great live song, especially because of the sing-along part (I'll always remember my first AB concert back in 2010, we had a great crowd that sang that part before the concert had even begun). In general though, there are AT LEAST 20 Alter Bridge songs immediately coming to my mind that I love much, much more.

It's also hilarious that you find OYE and Blackbird are their only epics. Absolutely fine, that's your opinion, but I can hardly believe that someone could not think that songs like Words or Cry of Achilles aren't epic. At the same time, I would've never even dreamed about describing OYE as epic in any way because it's not for me. ^^

I think I could consider those two epics as well. I might have been short-sighting the last two albums in that case.

However, I never said that OYE is one of my favorite songs (though it is), I was just stating how it became such a crowd-pleaser and popular song. I think that if Cry of Achilles wasn't a single and was backloaded on the album like Words Darker Than Their Wings, it would be much lesser known (as Words is, sadly). I couldn't say the same for OYE or Blackbird.

Note that I'm not trashing the last two albums at all. I'm just saying that they have evolved into a different kind of sound than way back when, and more often than not there's no way that they ever revert back to it. Personally, I'm okay with progression... but if the band ever sits and scratches their head wondering what made a certain song so popular, I was trying to list out some of the reasons, and hopefully they can make another song like that again. Of course, I'm not just referring to lyrics and melody, I'm also referring to the mixing. I wonder what Words and COA would sound like if mixed more like Blackbird (probably wouldn't like those two specific songs as much if they did that, but who knows).

[MuffinMcFluffin]

I think my biggest issue in the case of "Show Me a Leader" is his loose pronunciation of things. (i.e. I keep hearing "who's intentions go unpersuaded" in the second verse, and I never am quite sure what to make of the last phrase of the bridge leading into the solo. "all alone, on our own, all night long?" and that's after having seen the lyrics)

I would agree with that. As I said, I don't dislike the Slash stuff, but I just prefer the AB sound of Myles' voice, and wish the Slash one wouldn't transfer over.

And I've criticized this band for their older live performances as well. I own the Blu-ray discs for their Amsterdam and Wembley concerts, and they just play songs way too fast with Myles either shorting himself on words, speaking them, or getting nasally. They have gotten better at this since then. Someone must've whispered in their ear.

Also, this is probably a silly question but... As far as the OYE statements go, did I say something to bring up that particular song? I'm figuring it was just an example you felt best illustrated the point, but that bit kind of threw me at first reading the response.

Haha not at all, that was on me alone, my bad. I kind of took your statement and ran with it. When I asked the rhetorical question of why OYE is so popular, that was addressed to everybody. Not just you.

And I know I'm going to be panned for some of the things that I say. I'm new to the board and have yet to read the room on what kind of fan base I'm looking at here (regarding song popularity). Obviously OYE is so old and mainstreamed that I chose to point to that one because it is widely known as their first real hit... and normally one of their last encore songs to boot.

[anguyen92]

I think I could consider those two epics as well. I might have been short-sighting the last two albums in that case.

However, I never said that OYE is one of my favorite songs (though it is), I was just stating how it became such a crowd-pleaser and popular song. I think that if Cry of Achilles wasn't a single and was backloaded on the album like Words Darker Than Their Wings, it would be much lesser known (as Words is, sadly). I couldn't say the same for OYE or Blackbird.

It's a funny thing you stated that, given that the title track of Fortress was the "official" last song of the album and most people would consider it up there as a tremendous epic, and I think the band really loved to play that song live given that on their last 20+ headlining shows of the Fortress tour, they played that song every night. Blackbird, Fortress, and Cry of Achilles. Three of the longest songs of the band's catalog at that time and they played it all in those last 20-something headlining shows.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

I think I could consider those two epics as well. I might have been short-sighting the last two albums in that case.

However, I never said that OYE is one of my favorite songs (though it is), I was just stating how it became such a crowd-pleaser and popular song. I think that if Cry of Achilles wasn't a single and was backloaded on the album like Words Darker Than Their Wings, it would be much lesser known (as Words is, sadly). I couldn't say the same for OYE or Blackbird.

It's a funny thing you stated that, given that the title track of Fortress was the "official" last song of the album and most people would consider it up there as a tremendous epic, and I think the band really loved to play that song live given that on their last 20+ headlining shows of the Fortress tour, they played that song every night. Blackbird, Fortress, and Cry of Achilles. Three of the longest songs of the band's catalog at that time and they played it all in those last 20-something headlining shows.

I think you're misconstruing my argument by adding titles I have yet to speak of, and furthermore trying to state why the converse of my statement is valid.

Never once did I say that songs without OYE's characteristics aren't good/popular/epic. What I am curious about though is if there is anything that will bring me back to a: "This feels like old AB" moment. And again, I am not saying they should go back that way. Not at all. I just wonder if there is some variance along those lines.

When I first reviewed Fortress on Amazon after one playthrough, this is what I had to say about their direction of it (keep in mind a lot of my opinions and thoughts have changed):

Some of the songs seem "messy," but in a good way and I'll explain. First of all, every one of these songs would be great in concert. They just have that feel to them, since they're loud, hardcore, wild, and all over the place. Many of their longer songs on this album don't follow the general structure of songwriting though. Instead, they feel more like movies: separated into three acts. Listen to Cry of Achilles, Fortress, Calm the Fire, Bleed it Dry, Lover, and Waters Rising. There's some flow here and there, but there are times where you literally could start a song, listen to it for a bit, walk out of the room and take a whiz, then return and wonder if it's the same song or not. They vary so much and separate in almost random places or random tones that you couldn't really convince yourself one way or the other.

Continuing on this thought, as awesome as the solos and riffs are, they aren't quite as "epic" as they could be. My favorite solos remain to be from Blackbird, Open Your Eyes, Rise Today, Down to My Last, and Buried Alive... where they just mold with the song so perfectly. It's not about being the fastest solo, the craziest solo, or the longest solo. It's about being the most memorable. I can hear every note in my head, match it wonderfully and progressively almost as to expect what's to come, and it enhances the rest of the song rather than just making the song better because that part is included.

One thing I noticed about Alter Bridge, when I truly sat back and looked at every song and heard it in my head, was that they do have one flaw: they don't have very good bridges in their songs. Yeah, some are okay, but like the "messy" thing I was talking about before, they deviate so much from the rest of the song or totally fail to match up, that whether or not they sound good it throws off the consistency factor. The same goes for this album too. I would argue that Fortress, Watch Over You, Broken Wings, and Blackbird feature their best bridges, and songs that don't feature any bridges tend to do fine with their solos, but I just finally realized this.

So there is a certain tone change to their songs as well (which I thought was mostly Tremonti's influence since he was gaining popularity at the time), and I'll continue to rock hard with all of their songs. I am very interested in seeing how the rest of this album plays out, though. Hearing what Show Me a Leader offers reminds me more of Fortress than anything else though. I know some people said it has a One Day Remains feel to it (the song, I imagine), but given the mixing of it you can't quite hear it as much to me.

I think a few of you are mistaking what my original point was, so much that I think I forget what it was now too lol. But I will let you know if I think one of you is putting words in my mouth, or taking the point the wrong way completely... because I think that has happened in just about every post that has responded to my post so far. Not your fault, I'm probably sending the wrong message. Just remember that I am new to the forum so I haven't yet felt ya'll out regarding how I should come across.

Oh, and once again... I never spoke about Fortress. Last I remember we were talking about COA and Words. Words happens to be the top underrated song of this band, from my view to many views here to that article that we all saw. It's unfortunate it doesn't get more coverage. Fortress however is the title track, probably a good way to get some more people wondering what it's all about. And as I said in my review... it's all over the place, mostly for the better. Definitely something to listen to live (and I loved hearing it live). Just wanted to throw that out there.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Just really quickly... going back to the talk about the mixing of tracks, I have heard in my head what songs like Open Your Eyes, Before Tomorrow Comes, Blackbird, Broken Wings, Metalingus, In Loving Memory, Brand New Start, etc. would sound like if they are harmonized the entire way through, and how I'd probably like them less for it. I do wish Myles had more faith in his one single voice at times and just let us hear it ring that one time, no more of him or Mark. Here and there I think it would be appreciated more. Even hearing the preview for My Champion makes me go, "What if it was just Myles there?" Methinks it would be better off.

Now, that just may be me. I think you all can read very clearly what my message is there. And no, that's not to say that harmonizing doesn't have its place. I just don't think it should be throughout an entire song, especially when someone is harmonizing themselves.

[Crumbso]

Dude you should call yourself TL;DR. Some valid points but it took me a long time to get through them.

[AB23]

that's his schtick

[One Drew Remains]

I appreciate your points, but IMO you're dead wrong about AB not writing good bridges. I think the bridges to their songs are some of the best in rock. The riffs/lyrics or just riffs leading into and out of the middle of the songs (or solos) are amazing to me. I can't think of any off hand that I don't like or felt like they "tacked it on" there to transition to the next part.

[Raven]

I appreciate your points, but IMO you're dead wrong about AB not writing good bridges. I think the bridges to their songs are some of the best in rock. The riffs/lyrics or just riffs leading into and out of the middle of the songs (or solos) are amazing to me. I can't think of any off hand that I don't like or felt like they "tacked it on" there to transition to the next part.

^^^^This x1,000

[AB23]

Guys the band is called Alter BRIDGE. I mean, come on.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Dude you should call yourself TL;DR. Some valid points but it took me a long time to get through them.

Of all the places you suggest that, you do it here? While we're at it, why don't we just listen to the radio edits of Cry of Achilles and Show Me a Leader. We all saw how that turned out.

I don't type to hear myself talk, and Myles doesn't write lyrics to hear himself sing. If I hit "post" and words were in it, they were with intent. The last time I stopped typing, my point was misconstrued. I had to continue typing.

The luxury of this is people don't have to respond to my posts, either. I'd rather get my point across correctly and be ignored then cut my point short and be responded to in the wrong manner. You're going to an NL ballpark clamoring for the DH. This is a message board, not a chat room.

Sorry for venting lol, just seemed off. AB23 is correct though, I'll stop at nothing to get my point across. It's not that tiring to type a few words when you type 100 WPM. But in all seriousness, what makes my word descriptions less significant than the essays that were written about the listening party? Just because you wanted to read it, it mattered more? Sounds a little biased hehe.

I appreciate your points, but IMO you're dead wrong about AB not writing good bridges. I think the bridges to their songs are some of the best in rock. The riffs/lyrics or just riffs leading into and out of the middle of the songs (or solos) are amazing to me. I can't think of any off hand that I don't like or felt like they "tacked it on" there to transition to the next part.

Oh, if I read the lyrics on paper I'm sure I love them. I was referring to melody only, or even chord progression. As a guitarist, I sometimes go, "That was a weird way to venture."

I feel the same for the solo in Show Me a Leader. Yeah, ya'll can say Tremonti is mashing... he is! But until the very end when Myles starts singing with it, I feel like he made that solo up one day with the background instruments, then went back and said, "That sounded aight. Anyone pick up the tablature?" I mean some of it literally sounds off-key haha.

Guys the band is called Alter BRIDGE. I mean, come on.

I hate muffins...

[Timotheus]

I kinda agree with you about the solos (though I don't think anything sounds off-key in SMAL), and I agree that the bridge of SMAL is a bit lackluster (they could've made a return to the intro or something), but in general I think they do bridges really well. On Fortress (the album) the bridges were almost always the best part of the song for me. If anything is lacking with AB it's usually the chorus.

[Crumbso]

It was a tongue in cheek comment really.

[Fish Tacos]

especially when someone is harmonizing themselves.

Yep. A lot of people get on Elvis' case, but for me this is one of the biggest obstacles on enjoying stuff post ODR/BB. I think they just like having all those layers for a more complex sound but IMO the only harmonizing should be coming from Mark and it shouldn't be overused. Like you said, those older songs if you imagine them harmonized the way they do now, would be worse, not better.