NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

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Lotha
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Lotha »

It's not up to any fan to decide when it's time for any band's new album. And people vote with their wallets. If there was money in a new Creed record (enough to justify working with Stapp I guess), then there'd already be a new Creed record. So, you can like Creed more than AB, but unless there's a bunch more of you than there is of the people who don't give a rat's ass about Creed and prefer AB, then no one really cares business-wise. (And I certainly don't, opinion-wise. Just commenting on the very entitled vibe Creed fans like to give off /shrug)
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by chtimixeur »

Since they'll never catch the old chemistry of theirs, they should let it rest for good.
I don't want to hear another half-assed album, and I certainly don't want them to mess their own songs up like they did in 2009 (adding Eric Friedman as a second live guitar player was a mistake IMHO).
You can tell their heart was not into it during the reunion, and it showed.

Plus, Mark has been running in circles over the last 10 years creatively, and I don't care what he says, I think he's regressed as a songwriter. Everything is predictable with him nowadays, even the so-called epics. His songs are still enjoyable for the most part, but he never impresses me anymore.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by nagpo »

Lotha wrote:It's not up to any fan to decide when it's time for any band's new album. And people vote with their wallets. If there was money in a new Creed record (enough to justify working with Stapp I guess), then there'd already be a new Creed record. So, you can like Creed more than AB, but unless there's a bunch more of you than there is of the people who don't give a rat's ass about Creed and prefer AB, then no one really cares business-wise. (And I certainly don't, opinion-wise. Just commenting on the very entitled vibe Creed fans like to give off /shrug)
Well, according to Tremonti himself it IS up to fans to decide if there is a new record since he himself has stated that all he's waiting for is a resurgence in public interest of Creed. He's basically waiting for the nostalgia factor to kick in before he cashes in on another record, like they did in 09. And there probably is more people who care about Creed over AB. Just look at why they did the the 09 reunion in the first place. AB couldn't pay its debts -it wasn't making the type of money the Creed reunion did. Why did the Creed reunion make a lot more money? Because more people are at least aware of Creed than AB and went to the live shows. So to say Creed hasn't or wouldn't be of financial interest for mark (even during the time of AB) is wrong.

You mention entitled creed fans. This is a bad argument. It means nothing. Nobody is technically entitled to anything, not even the breath you breathe so don't even bother claiming otherwise. Mark doesn't owe anybody anything. I'm not saying he literally HAS to make a creed record, obviously. Anybody whose not retarded knows I'm not being literal and I'm just showing my preference to a creed record and providing reasons why.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by riemslag1 »

Well, I guess Creed is mainly a US-nostalgia-thing and decreasing every year. AB is more global and still growing every release, even with TLH. As an artist making money and providing for my family I would know where to invest my energy and efforts. Honestly I don’t think there is a very big chance we will see Creed again.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

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riemslag1 wrote:Well, I guess Creed is mainly a US-nostalgia-thing and decreasing every year. AB is more global and still growing every release, even with TLH. As an artist making money and providing for my family I would know where to invest my energy and efforts. Honestly I don’t think there is a very big chance we will see Creed again.
:yeahthat

It's enough to look at what Tremonti is preferring to do right now to see where the money lies. Obviously not with Creed. That "resurgence of public interest in Creed" thing is almost sad. Counting on it to happen doesn't mean it will happen, for fans or for Mark.

Yeah, the fan interest decides, but it's not up to any individual to deal a judgement like "we've had enough of AB" when there obviously isn't enough "we" in that statement. If there were, then there would be more Creed. Easy. I don't see why this concept is so hard to grasp.

Also,
nagpo wrote: Anybody *who's not retarded knows
FTFY.

If you wanna call other people retarded, you can at least learn how to spell. The insults will carry more weight then.

Just a tip. :cheers
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

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Mark's attitude has once again changed over the years from "I don't want to see this guy [Stapp] ever again' to "everybody deserves second, third, forth, thousandth chance' which clearly suggests that he is waiting for the right moment to work with Stapp again, but I don't feel it's based on 'artistic' motives but rather on the fact that they're still buying themselves out from this Wind-Up/Universal thing and that Tremonti and AB don't raise as much money. This is why they got back together in 2009 I think, but then AB gained popularity because of Myles working with Slash and them joining Roadrunner which made Mark drop Creed again.
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by nagpo »

Lotha wrote:
riemslag1 wrote:Well, I guess Creed is mainly a US-nostalgia-thing and decreasing every year. AB is more global and still growing every release, even with TLH. As an artist making money and providing for my family I would know where to invest my energy and efforts. Honestly I don’t think there is a very big chance we will see Creed again.
:yeahthat

It's enough to look at what Tremonti is preferring to do right now to see where the money lies. Obviously not with Creed. That "resurgence of public interest in Creed" thing is almost sad. Counting on it to happen doesn't mean it will happen, for fans or for Mark.

Yeah, the fan interest decides, but it's not up to any individual to deal a judgement like "we've had enough of AB" when there obviously isn't enough "we" in that statement. If there were, then there would be more Creed. Easy. I don't see why this concept is so hard to grasp.

Also,
nagpo wrote: Anybody *who's not retarded knows
FTFY.

If you wanna call other people retarded, you can at least learn how to spell. The insults will carry more weight then.

Just a tip. :cheers
Correcting a typo isn't really an argument but whatever.

"It's enough to look at what Tremonti is preferring to do right now to see where the money lies"
Not necessarily true. Mark has said several times that he cares more about doing he wants to do creatively rather than doing things based on financial decisions, within reason.

" but it's not up to any individual to deal a judgement like "we've had enough of AB" when there obviously isn't enough "we" in that statement."

You do realize that the probably 2 pro-creed posters on this website does not represent the entirety of those that would be interested in more creed? Do you know how many creed fans exist in the real world or on other sites that don't interact with the little bubble that is TABN? The reason why there hasn't been creed since 09 has nothing really to do with money. It has all to do with Mark not wanting to work with stapp and also being more interested in other creative endeavors. But this seems to be changing and he's now treading the waters to see if anybody would be interested in a creed record. Obviously there is. I can't imagine creed not having enough fans to not make even a minimal tour run profitable. It just depends on what marks expectations are for creed. Maybe he wants to go big or not go at all and that might be a problem. At the end of their reunion run they weren't selling bigger concerts, right? I don't remember.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Lotha »

nagpo wrote: Correcting a typo isn't really an argument but whatever.
It wasn't an argument. It was a tip on how to be rude more efficiently. I thought you might want to improve on your already considerable skills in that area.
nagpo wrote:"It's enough to look at what Tremonti is preferring to do right now to see where the money lies"
Not necessarily true. Mark has said several times that he cares more about doing he wants to do creatively rather than doing things based on financial decisions, within reason.
That "within reason" part is the one that decides a lot. If MT couldn't afford to do Tremonti, he wouldn't be doing it. He might be writing those songs and sitting on them and exercising that particular creative muscle, nothing's stopping him from doing that, but when it comes to actually releasing albums, that's where finances some into play. (And other factors, such as who you're working with. But mostly finances.)
nagpo wrote: " but it's not up to any individual to deal a judgement like "we've had enough of AB" when there obviously isn't enough "we" in that statement."

You do realize that the probably 2 pro-creed posters on this website does not represent the entirety of those that would be interested in more creed? Do you know how many creed fans exist in the real world or on other sites that don't interact with the little bubble that is TABN? The reason why there hasn't been creed since 09 has nothing really to do with money. It has all to do with Mark not wanting to work with stapp and also being more interested in other creative endeavors. But this seems to be changing and he's now treading the waters to see if anybody would be interested in a creed record. Obviously there is. I can't imagine creed not having enough fans to not make even a minimal tour run profitable. It just depends on what marks expectations are for creed. Maybe he wants to go big or not go at all and that might be a problem. At the end of their reunion run they weren't selling bigger concerts, right? I don't remember.
You do realize that I'm not talking only about this forum? You may have this grand illusion that there are soooooo many Creed fans out there that would go on concerts and buy the album and are just waiting for Mark to have mercy and reach out to Stapp, but the fact that Mark's been sitting on these songs for years means there's not enough interest for it. Otherwise Mark would suck it up and work with Stapp -- the reunion did happen and they did think they'd earn more from it, didn't they? And he's been hinting at that in this interview, wasn't he? Maybe you can't imagine Creed not having a profitable tour because you're a fan and you live in a bubble with other fans you know, but even 2009 has been almost ten years ago at this point and their heyday has looooooong since passed.

Other than the hardcore fanbase (which I imagine is continually dwindling), no one cares about Creed anymore. And the boys' current projects all have more momentum. And Stapp is out of the equation in those other projects, too, so that's just an added bonus.

Whether you like it or not, the only factor that will decide Creed's future is money (which is ironic, given how Creed fans like to brag about records that went diamond and make fun of "it's not about the money"). If people pay them enough to put those songs out, they will suck it up and do it. Otherwise, they won't.
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by riemslag1 »

Well, I will not drag myself too much into this discussion. I already made my point. I guess if there will ever be moment in the future that these four guys know to align their wishes and intentions, they will make a new record and possibly tour the States. The rest of the world simply does not care much. I hope it will never happen and the effords and energy will be invested into AB and Tremonti. The guys are reaching their 50’s. Only limited time left when we have album-cycles of 3-4 years. Better to spent the time left to the best music they can make, and in my honest humble opinion that will not be together with mr. Stapp, who pulled the plug himself when they were on top of the world. But I will certainly buy a new Creed album when it is produced, but only beceause I’m a collector of all AB-related stuff .

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Finaldecision »

Lotha wrote: That "within reason" part is the one that decides a lot. If MT couldn't afford to do Tremonti, he wouldn't be doing it. He might be writing those songs and sitting on them and exercising that particular creative muscle, nothing's stopping him from doing that, but when it comes to actually releasing albums, that's where finances some into play. (And other factors, such as who you're working with. But mostly finances.)
I'm pretty sure that Full Circle sold more copies than any AB album, maybe except One Day Remains. But ODR came out in 2004 when albums did sell fairly well and I'm not even sure that it sold more than FC. Also look at the number of views for Creed music videos on YouTube, they exceed Alter Bridge.
I don't care too much about these figures but rather the music. A Dying Machine was phenomenal, Fortress as well. Nevertheless I'm sure that Creed would still sell a good amount if they get appropriate promotion + a good single. Even over here in Europe Creed songs are still played sometimes in clubs or on the radio.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by riemslag1 »

Isn't it clear yet that this is no matter of comparison of past sales ? It never was and never will be.
It's the future sales to be expected that will only matter, and that will be a very low expectance for as well AB as Creed. That's just the condition of the music business nowadays, nothing else. So probably the revenue to be expected out of touring will decide. Yes, Creed will (still) possibly sell more tickets in the US, but worldwide ? Creed-touring will cause more, and probably too much, time for AB not to connect with their fanbase, having already the Tremonti, Slash and MK hiatus. Will the band be able to affort that ?

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Lotha »

Album sales aren't even the main source of income for musicians anymore. It's all about touring. And if you can only have a semi-successful tour in the US then the expenses of putting out an album and actually going through all that trouble are probably not worth it -- hence no new Creed stuff since 2009.
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by chtimixeur »

It would probably work if they gave Creed their full attention for 3 to 5 years straight.
They could bring it back to a somewhat big level, I'm pretty sure of it.
A formerly huge band like Creed deserves every member's full attention to stay on a certain level, and if you just do the bare minmum and expect your crowd from 10 years ago to show up, you're delusional (hence the lackluster numbers of the 2009-2012 tours).

Having three bands makes you pretty busy all the time, but it doesn't allow any of the bands to build any momentum with an audience.
For instance, Alter Bidge could have had more success with Fortress in the USA if they had properly toured and promoted that album, but since they all had future other projects to focus on, it didn't happen.
If we're talking about Creed, they didn't do a proper Full Circle tour, and as a consequence, that album had no chance whatsoever to connect with a new audience.

I remember an interview with Chevelle's singer, where he basically said you should put out a new album every 2 or 3 years, or else people would simply forget about you. And that's exactly what that band has been doing, and it's proved to be succesful. They don't indulge themselves with vanity side projects, and they just do what they do best with the ONE band that made a big impact on radio.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Dolo »

chtimixeur wrote: I remember an interview with Chevelle's singer, where he basically said you should put out a new album every 2 or 3 years, or else people would simply forget about you.

Tool haven't released one in 12 years and still everybody are talking about them.
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by chtimixeur »

1. Tool is an exception.
2. 10,000 Days wasn't exactly well received.
3. I doubt the next album will make much of an impact. They've been a legacy band for a long while now.
4. If they started their career now, they would definitely have to release new music every 2 or 3 years, just like anyone else.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by mirko.volpon »

I santi a Creed album

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Andy92 »

The problem with Creed in 2018 is that their original music was pretty era-specific. It fit right into that post-grunge niche of the later 90s/early 2000s. No one is making that kind of music (at least on an overly successful level) in 2018. Full Circle was basically some Alter Bridge b-sides with Stapp singing overtop of them, besides a couple gems like Time and A Thounsand Faces. But it didn’t sound much like the first 3 Creed albums.

If you expect them to recapture their old nostalgia, I don’t think it would happen even if that was the only band the guys put their time into. Because the post-grunge era is gone, and all we’d get is some shell of their classic material. Look at Godsmack today. They may still be decently successful because they’ve stayed at it all these years, but their newest album mostly gets reviewed negatively because it’s just full of overpolished rock radio tunes.
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Re: it's still desperately trying to revive the 80's

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I don't think the world is ready for a post grunge revival.
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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by nagpo »

Andy92 wrote:The problem with Creed in 2018 is that their original music was pretty era-specific. It fit right into that post-grunge niche of the later 90s/early 2000s. No one is making that kind of music (at least on an overly successful level) in 2018. Full Circle was basically some Alter Bridge b-sides with Stapp singing overtop of them, besides a couple gems like Time and A Thounsand Faces. But it didn’t sound much like the first 3 Creed albums.

If you expect them to recapture their old nostalgia, I don’t think it would happen even if that was the only band the guys put their time into. Because the post-grunge era is gone, and all we’d get is some shell of their classic material. Look at Godsmack today. They may still be decently successful because they’ve stayed at it all these years, but their newest album mostly gets reviewed negatively because it’s just full of overpolished rock radio tunes.
I've heard this point before and I think the band even mentioned this as well. I don't know how many of you remember how close we were to having a 5th creed record after full circle. They actually were working on a new record and were in the process of writing new material before they split again. And to capture their old sound what they were doing was playing small live shows with strictly mop/hc songs to help imitate the same feeling. You can find some of this material online with "Devil inside you" on youtube. And then they released "More than this" on the retrospective album. More than this sounded, in my opinion, a lot like a Weathered song, very similar to My Sacrifice. I wish they would one day finish it because it has potential. So I think they can recapture that same sound.

And while Full circle didn't sound so much like a traditional creed record, partly because of the AB influence and the difference of producer, I've really come around to liking it a bit more in recent times. The record actually has a lot of heart.

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Re: NEW! A Glimmer of Hope

Post by Andy92 »

I agree that Full Circle isn’t a bad record. Besides a couple songs I just can’t really get into, I think it’s really solid from top to bottom.

If they released a record using a couple of the unreleased songs you mentioned plus some others that sound more like a modernized spin on their old 90s sound and less like a mixture of some AB/Tremonti songs with Stapp singing over them, then I’d be all for it. But I do think it’s hard to expect the band to ever have huge success again, even if it was the band members’ only project. Alter Bridge had a 5-6 year stint at its beginning of being the sole focus, and as much as I love them, they never reached a status of playing arenas in the US. They hit it huge in the UK and other parts of Europe, just not where I’m from.

Another point I’d add to this is that rock in general is going through more of an underground phase now. I look at some really popular up and coming bands in the rock community such as Nothing More, and although their music is tremendously well received for the most part, they aren’t headlining arenas. They’re still opening for the 15-20 year vets like Shinedown, Papa Roach, etc. The industry is in this state where quality music isn’t enough to sell tickets by itself. Rock was way more mainstream in the 80s-90s than it is now, at least that’s what I think.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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