Creed V Wishlist

A place for all Creed discussion.
nagpo
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby nagpo » Tue May 21, 2013 11:13 pm

I respect and appreciate that he put his heart into it, I just don't think it was very good. It wasn't bad. Just forgettable. I never go back to it.

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Ryan
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Ryan » Tue May 21, 2013 11:44 pm

I listen to it all the time. I have quite the opposite opinion as you on it.
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby austin. » Wed May 22, 2013 12:21 am

I don't know why everyone (and by everyone, i pretty much mean this board) wants crazy metal don't put this shit on the radio songs. As much as people are gunna hate this opinion, songs that are put on the radio are put on the radio because they're catchy and sound good. We have filler tracks and B sides for the stuff everyone on this board wants to hear. With Creed, I much prefer WTLF, What If, OLB, Sacrifice, to songs like never die, say I, ode, etc...
Why everyone dislikes radio songs is beyond me. Creed didn't "sell out" putting out radio songs. They sold millions and millions of albums doing that. Something that Alter Bridge will never come close to doing.

Now, if an album is supposed to sound metal, thats different. I knew what I was going into buying All I Was, and for what it is, I think it's a masterpiece. One of my favorite albums ever. The one "radio song" New Way Out, I do not like, because it doesn't fit.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Them Bones » Wed May 22, 2013 12:23 am

Only Creed Singles were radio friendly and not all songs.Dosnt mean they were bad songs if they were on rdio. One Last Breath still has the best intro Mark has ever written imo. Torn is the best song he has ever written imo. I could go on and on about each single, and all of them were kickass. Most of the songs were epic, by catchy, it dosnt mean that it has to be for radio, catchy means the song should be stuck with you. Creed had that, One Day remains had that, after that, it was all downhill for Mark. Better guitar skills, but falling songwriting skills. I realise this more and more when I listen to MOP, Human Clay, or weathered front to back now and then. Creed, admit it or not was perfect for these guys, and imo was there prime. If they ever have to write another Creed record, I hope they do justice to their legacy, or just dissolve the fucking band.

And Metal what? really? AB? Metal? thats a Joke. If Mark really thinks he is a great Metal guitarist he really needs to "Open His Eyes" Or "Ears" rather.
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby psycosquirrel789 » Wed May 22, 2013 12:56 am

austin. wrote:I don't know why everyone (and by everyone, i pretty much mean this board) wants crazy metal don't put this shit on the radio songs. As much as people are gunna hate this opinion, songs that are put on the radio are put on the radio because they're catchy and sound good. We have filler tracks and B sides for the stuff everyone on this board wants to hear. With Creed, I much prefer WTLF, What If, OLB, Sacrifice, to songs like never die, say I, ode, etc...
Why everyone dislikes radio songs is beyond me. Creed didn't "sell out" putting out radio songs. They sold millions and millions of albums doing that. Something that Alter Bridge will never come close to doing.

Now, if an album is supposed to sound metal, thats different. I knew what I was going into buying All I Was, and for what it is, I think it's a masterpiece. One of my favorite albums ever. The one "radio song" New Way Out, I do not like, because it doesn't fit.

My .02


I think the argument though is that Mark is better than a radio musician. Yet he continues to limit himself to the format that radio has favored. His songs do not get radio play, but he is trying to fit that mold with almost every song he writes. Its a waste of his talent. Some people want him to break away from defining his songs in a radio format and let them breathe. He has this perception in his head that his songs need to work for radio and it is severely limiting his creativity. That's how I see it anyway.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Finaldecision » Wed May 22, 2013 5:11 am

psycosquirrel789 wrote:
austin. wrote:I don't know why everyone (and by everyone, i pretty much mean this board) wants crazy metal don't put this shit on the radio songs. As much as people are gunna hate this opinion, songs that are put on the radio are put on the radio because they're catchy and sound good. We have filler tracks and B sides for the stuff everyone on this board wants to hear. With Creed, I much prefer WTLF, What If, OLB, Sacrifice, to songs like never die, say I, ode, etc...
Why everyone dislikes radio songs is beyond me. Creed didn't "sell out" putting out radio songs. They sold millions and millions of albums doing that. Something that Alter Bridge will never come close to doing.

Now, if an album is supposed to sound metal, thats different. I knew what I was going into buying All I Was, and for what it is, I think it's a masterpiece. One of my favorite albums ever. The one "radio song" New Way Out, I do not like, because it doesn't fit.

My .02


I think the argument though is that Mark is better than a radio musician. Yet he continues to limit himself to the format that radio has favored. His songs do not get radio play, but he is trying to fit that mold with almost every song he writes. Its a waste of his talent. Some people want him to break away from defining his songs in a radio format and let them breathe. He has this perception in his head that his songs need to work for radio and it is severely limiting his creativity. That's how I see it anyway.


So I guess if he stopped trying to make radio songs, he would finally produce a radio song again. If he just stopped to overthink his music, his music could probably become more popular again.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby chtimixeur » Wed May 22, 2013 6:30 am

austin. wrote:Mark's guitar playing skills are always improving, but his song writing, his tone (wtf is he doing with his tone) pretty much everything but his skills are going downhill, unfortunately.

psycosquirrel789 wrote:I do tend to agree that Mark is past his prime... still good, but not what he used to be. It happens with every musician - its inevitable I guess.

psycosquirrel789 wrote:Of his last 30 songs, maybe 3 or 4 haven't kissed radio's ass...

Exactly, guys :bow

Cthree922012 wrote:Mark doesn't have a clue what a good sounding guitar is? can't write a simple catchy song?

of course I respect your opinion but if you have listened to AB and All I was and can't find 1 catchy song then I think your expectations are way to high

I stand by what I said.
I love ODR.
Blackbird is very good.
ABIII is decent.
All I Was is a mess, songwriting wise. Mark thinks writing songs equals adding parts together. I don't agree at all. His earlier songs felt more organic. Now you can hear the "copy & paste" in every song.

I was just listening to ODR for the first time in ages recently. Maybe I had overestimated it after all.. But no, it was as good as I remember. How could Mark go from that level of awesomeness to AIW's mediocrity ?

nagpo wrote:I think what he means is AB is more heavy and not as radio friendly. Metal type stuff is not as melodic or as catchy.

Not what I meant.
AB is NOT heavier than Creed.
It's more formated for radio.
Just listen to the cheesy choruses on EVERY song !

nagpo wrote:His solo stuff was pretty mediocre. Not in terms of guitar skill, but it just wasn't fun to listen to. It was pretty forgettable.

Forgettable.
Here is a word I would never thought I'd associate with Mark Tremonti, but it's unfortunately become a reality.
The guy thinks he's getting edgier and "more epic" when in fact he's becoming more predictable and generic day after day.

Cthree922012 wrote:and Ouch Nagpo for calling his solo record Mediocre. It was very different from AB and Creed I'll give you that and he probably is at his best Collaborating but he put a lot of heart and effort into this album and I think right there is enough to put it past Mediocre

It was not different from AB at all. Musically, it's almost identical (same structures, same sound, same cheesy themes, same radio format...). Just because you throw a metal riff here and there doesn't make you "artistic and unique". AIW is boring, predictable, cheesy, forgettable, mediocre. Choose the word ! ;)
I would have had more respect for Mark if he had tried to do something different just once. He says he's a metalhead ? Then he should do a full on metal album. Just once. After all, who cares ? It's a solo record, and nobody will buy it. He's got 2 other bands, so he could have loosened up a little, and he could have tried to push his boundaries on that record only.

Them Bones wrote:Only Creed Singles were radio friendly and not all songs.Doesnt mean they were bad songs if they were on rdio. One Last Breath still has the best intro Mark has ever written imo. Torn is the best song he has ever written imo. I could go on and on about each single, and all of them were kickass. Most of the songs were epic, by catchy, it dosnt mean that it has to be for radio, catchy means the song should be stuck with you. Creed had that, One Day remains had that, after that, it was all downhill for Mark. Better guitar skills, but falling songwriting skills. I realise this more and more when I listen to MOP, Human Clay, or weathered front to back now and then. Creed, admit it or not was perfect for these guys, and imo was there prime. If they ever have to write another Creed record, I hope they do justice to their legacy, or just dissolve the fucking band.

Creed was succesful on the radio, because the songs were good in the first place. The band was not trying to follow trends. They were not trying to be epic or cool. They just did what they did, and people noticed. That's the main difference with AB. Everything about early Creed sounds genuine and organic, whereas everything about AB since 2007 sounds forced and unnatural. That's why the American audience will never lov AB as much as they loved Creed.

Finaldecision wrote:So I guess if he stopped trying to make radio songs, he would finally produce a radio song again. If he just stopped to overthink his music, his music could probably become more popular again.

I applaude you for that comment. :bow
It's basically what I was trying to say on my reply just above.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Them Bones » Wed May 22, 2013 8:05 am

Yeah, there is an early Creed interview where Stapp said that they don't think too much and dont go over analysing music they want to write because they want it to be as organic as it can be. Over thinking a song and making it complicated just for the sake of it will naturally make that song artificial sounding. With AB, FC, AIW, you can clearly tell these guys think too much. Its not maths, its music, math is a part of it but the math bit can't over power the music bit.. Sadly, in AB, I feel they kinda "calculate" how a song is to be written when they should be just expressing there feeling pure and simple like they used to back in the day. Well, this topic tbh honest has been beaten to death and both the AB and Creed "camps" in majority agree to the fact that things are not like they used to be and for worse. I wonder how long its gonna take for the bands to realise. At this point I really don't give a shit about how AB and Mark solos are gonna sound, but if there were ever to be another Creed record, it better not be AB part 2 again.
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Finaldecision » Wed May 22, 2013 11:14 am

I like every Creed or AB record, I also like All I Was (It's still Mark Tremonti - that means there is at least a dozen brilliant guitar riffs and crazy solos all over the place). Still I think that it lost a bit of the magic it once had. The best way to describe it would be for me that it lacks that genuine, organic sound that every song of Mark Tremonti used to have. Many songs sound too forced and as if the band was overthinking every piece of it. I also think that production made it worse (well, but that's a different matter).

One Day Remains, Human Clay, My Own Prison - these album came straight from the heart. I still sense this genuine sound in some newer songs, like Isolation, Blackbird, Leave It Alone, Thousand Faces for example, but that old magic isn't transported throughout the whole records.

A very good example for that problem seems to be Still Remains. Still Remains starts out phenomenal with an outstanding riff and a very moody atmosphere. But then that odd chorus just sounds out of place, it doesn't fit the rest of the song. Another good example would be Brains which also starts with an incredible guitar riff but then drops down with the chorus.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby AllC392Was » Wed May 22, 2013 12:18 pm

Hmm all valid points. Have to disagree that I don't think they lost there magic and things to me are still organic even though they do add one to many affects on there songs and it can be a bit overboard. And I think every record that Mark/Myles have ever done came from the heart not just those ones. ODR does have more of an emotional feel than BB/AB3 but its just how they felt at the time I suppose.

I think they continue to improve and come out with amazing music and enjoy the albums that you consider the best but realize that they know there faults and they do need to tweak some things in the studio and live and I think that they will figure it out
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Ryan » Wed May 22, 2013 5:29 pm

Mark's pieced together songs like that his whole career.

All I Was contains the songs that he wanted to see the light of day that didn't fit the other projects he's a part of. He didn't set out to write something epic, game changing, progressive, different, metal, etc etc etc.

Your musical tastes have changed, as they do. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby AllC392Was » Wed May 22, 2013 5:37 pm

^ +1
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Andy92
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Andy92 » Wed May 22, 2013 5:37 pm

Ryan wrote:Mark's pieced together songs like that his whole career.

That's what I was thinking. Human Clay and One Day Remains were written in the same style as AB III and All I Was from Mark's writing standpoint.
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Wylde 1919 » Wed May 22, 2013 6:54 pm

By reading some of these posts that trash Marks songwriting, or guitar knowledge I thought I was on Blabbermouth for a minute. If you don't like what the mans doing don't buy it or listen to it. I don't think everything is great, look no further than half of Weathered. I wouldn't tell any other musician that he can't, or forgot how to write songs that only appease to me. Remember Creed and Alter Bridge is more than Mark. Stapp, Myles, Flip, and Brian, all have voices in the writing as well.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby chtimixeur » Thu May 23, 2013 4:54 am

His writing method may have stayed the same, but in my opnion (and apparently I'm not the only one thinking that), the end result is not as good (or pleasing for the fans) as it used to be.
It looks to me as this "copy & paste" songwriting method has recently shown its limits. The songs don't flow as well as they used to.
But hey, who cares after all ? We're here to debate, we do it peacefully and respecfully towards each other, and those last few years have shown us one thing : the band doesn't care a bit about all those debates we can have. Maybe it's a good thing, I don't know. But considering how many fans dislike Elvis (I'm one of them), I'd take notice if I were in the band. Something has to be wrong when people are vocal about a subject over and over again.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Jhenrid » Thu May 23, 2013 5:37 am

Correct if I'm wrong but hasn't ABIII been the most successful as far as audiences and sells? Sounds like it's just them growing and people want them to stay the same. Also there was an interview with Stapp around the time of woodstock where he said Creed used a formula so I'm not sure how organic it can be when you do the same thing every time. Don't misunderstand me I've everything that has come out of all three bands but I think people are forgetting that not only do we grow but they grow as musicians as well and there may easily may come a time where their music doesn't appeal to you anymore. Look at Linkin Park for example, their first 2 albums sound very different from their last. I'm sure they have gotten new fans and they lost old fans but they were allowed to grow and at the end of the day everyone has that right without having to deal with everyone criticising them for it.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby chtimixeur » Thu May 23, 2013 5:48 am

Jhenrid wrote:Correct if I'm wrong but hasn't ABIII been the most successful as far as audiences and sells?

It is what it is, but according to wikipedia :
- ODR sold 500.000 copies in the US
- Blackbird sold 250.000 in the US
- ABIII sold 60.000 in the US

Sure, they got better reviews because they stop using the "Creed sound" after ODR. But sales-wise, you can tell the USA don't care about this band.

Europe is another story, but just because they played a couple of arenas in the UK doesn't mean they will only play arenas in all European countries.
They're a moderately successful band, and there is nothing wrong with that. They'll just never be big or huge : if it were to happen someday, it already would have.

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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Them Bones » Thu May 23, 2013 10:35 am

Creed was from a time when the music was spreading around by word of mouth or reviews. And they were huge. AB and the new Creed and other projects seem to be catering to the "internet community" only, which is kinda pathetic. And talk about great reviews for ABIII... well, Slipknot gets great reviews, one of the most overrated bands I have ever heard with one of the shittiest Metal sound, and I've listened to Metal in the past, and I mean good metal. One can't really go with what a few people have to say about your music online. Serves both ways, good and bad reviews, however, if you stop believing in your own art cuz somebody dosn't like it, shows you are doing it for them, and not for yourself. Tremonti was a brilliant guitarist imo. His songwriting skills were simple and yet one of the most beautiful that I had heard. He once believed solos were overrated. Well, I don't have a problem with him soloing or expanding his horizons, but he has lost his identity when he decided to be done with his "signature Creed" sound. He does sound like a sevendust wannabe sometimes.
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby Timotheus » Thu May 23, 2013 12:23 pm

Them Bones wrote:however, if you stop believing in your own art cuz somebody dosn't like it, shows you are doing it for them, and not for yourself

Hm, interesting opinion. I don't think he strayed away from the Creed sound because of all the Creed hate though.. I think he just wanted to make sure there was a distinction between AB and Creed. There's no way a band like AB can be a succesful band if they're going to be a 'copy' of the 'original' band.
So yea, Mark 'betrayed' his own sound by trying to do something different with AB. He could've fixed it with the Creed reunion, but he didn't. That entire reunion was one big disaster imo.. I can't think of anything good that came from it (besides money).
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Re: Creed V Wishlist

Postby AllC392Was » Thu May 23, 2013 12:31 pm

Creed Union did bring us "Full Circle". I actually really liked that album. Good Fight/Overcome/ Suddenly/Song you sing or some pretty good tunes
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