'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

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vChris
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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby vChris » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:42 am

My bad :)
I can see you points and agree that they are definitely not the classic "band constellation" at the moment. Although I love a lot of the later stuff and don't agree with the "wrong direction", but that's personal taste. :cheers

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby chtimixeur » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:14 am

Dolo wrote:It looks as if 97-02 Creed was more of a 'band thing' based on the whole band jamming ideas out and working on keeping the groove whereas AB is just Mark and Myles writing stuff at home and bringing that over to the rest of the guys, and since Mark is generally a guitar player you can really hear the bass losing its place as Them Bones mentioned it.

Good point.
I guess that's one of the biggest issues I have with Mark's current music.
It's too guitar-oriented, whereas on the first 2 Creed albums, there was a great combination of bass and guitar. You could tell some songs had been jammed do death and improved in the process.
I'm not sure Creed jammed that much when they wrote Weathered though. If I remember correctly, Stapp and Mark wrote that record together in 3 weeks or so.

@riemslag1 : do you really consider Tremonti as a metal band ? Sure, they have a few metal riffs here and there, but if I were trying to convince someone to listen to metal, I wouldn't start with that band. It's way too pop-ish, and your daughters will have a misconception of what metal actually is. Just my two cents, of course.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby Dolo » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:27 am

vChris wrote:\. Although I love a lot of the later stuff and don't agree with the "wrong direction", but that's personal taste. :cheers


Maybe not the "wrong direction" but just different. It's more guitar-oriented than band-oriented, I would say.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby riemslag1 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:04 pm

Talking out of concert experience ! This band plays a hell of a set in front of great interacting crowds over here. Great moshpits and very loud volume. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. This band really is pure metal live and really kicks ass. Have not seen such enthousiasm in crowds since the kill 'em all tour and show no mercy tour back in the eighties. Mark wants to offer a pure metal experience to his audience and really succeeds in doiing so. Can't wait to see them again and again and again. Very fast growing crowds, moving to bigger halls and planning extra concerts over here clearly shows that rock and metal is florishing over here and gets more appreciation than in the States. Indeed he won me over to be a very loyal fan. Not gonna skip a concert in my country as far as i'm able to.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby riemslag1 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:07 pm

Back on topic now, sorry i got carried away ! Indeed I think Mark is right that they better should have waited with this box untill the anniversary and include more rare and new stuff. Probably the only chance we would get to hear the new stuff !?

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby JaredWard » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:00 pm

chtimixeur wrote:@Jared : the choruses are extremely commercial sounding in Tremonti. Trivium have the same issue, and their latest album is not being well received at all by its fans. They're even being called sellouts. If Mark is that serious about metal, he should drop the 4 minute format and challenge himself with 6-7 minute long songs full of intricate instrumental parts. Now, THAT would be a proof of his integrity and his love for 80's metal !

I think you're mistaking melodic with commercial. There are a lot of great 4-5 minute metal songs out there too.. I don't see how writing a 7-8 minute song makes you more Metal but to each his own. lol if anything that would place him in the progressive metal category & I don't think Mark would ever fall into that. Of course there's always room to grow.. so we'll see.

If Mark wanted to be commercial & sell out he would get away from direction he's going & go the Creed route to cash in on that sound & name like Scott but he's not.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby austin. » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:46 am

Yeah, Tremonti definitely plays metal and definitely puts on a hell of a show. Tremonti is my favorite band to see live. A lot of energy in the music. Hope they stick around, may get a Tremonti tattoo

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby chtimixeur » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:17 am

I'm a huge metalhead, and sorry, but for me, Tremonti doesn't qualify as real metal. It's too soft and safe sounding.
In a way, his melodic approach reminds me of what The Haunted attempted to do with Unseen in 2011, and the band got slaughtered by fans and critics for selling out.
@Jared : sure, there are a lot of short metal tunes that are great (Evile's Cult comes to mind, and if you like Metallica, you should definitely listen to it). But usually, on a metal album, there's only 1 or 2 melodic songs to appeal to the masses, and the rest of the album is more ambitious and less formulatic. You can't fill a whole metal album with 10 or 12 songs built with the same formula, that's all I'm saying.
Also, melodic oftens equals commercial...

@riemslag1 : are you seriously putting Tremonti in the same league as early Metallica and Slayer ? Please tell me, which metal bands do you like aside from Tremonti ?

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby riemslag1 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:35 am

I've got them all, Exodus, Testament, Slayer, Sepultura/Soulfly, Pantera, Machine Head, all major NWOBHM bands, etc etc etc. Also saw numerous gigs of those bands, often from the beginning. When it comes to metal I won't include Creed, that's more poprock-style, maybe melodic and therefore commercial according to you.
Over 35 years of metal experience, amongst other genres, never shortsighted towards only one style.
Attended hundreds of gigs and festivals through the past decades.
I might have a little more metal-experience than you.
Tremonti's live performance is a whole lot louder and heavier than the cd's, ask anyone.
Believe me (or not and be stubborn), Tremonti is amongst those raising the most energy to the crowd and playing loudest. Easy !
Makes me wonder if you have even attended a headlining gig from Tremonti yourself ?

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby chtimixeur » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:02 pm

Well, consider me surprised, because I'm also a big fan of those fans you mentioned.
The fact that you were more impressed by Tremonti than by early Machine Head/Pantera/Sepultura leaves me quite speechless, to be honest with you. For me, those 3 bands released some of the most memorable metal albums of all time, and I just wish I had seen them in the mid 90's... Lucky you !

Also, I don't think louder is better. I actually think Mark's sound is one of the worst I've ever experienced at a gig when I saw him with AB. It's ridiculously loud, to the point it's hard to recognize the songs... What's their goal when they push the volume knob to the max ? Do they want to give tinnitus to everyone in the audience ?

To answeer your question, I haven't seen Tremonti live, and I don't intend to. From what I've seen, he can't sing live and keeps shouting the lyrics. Why would I travel a few hundred kilometers to attend a concert of a band I barely enjoy ? That makes no sense to me at all.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby riemslag1 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:26 pm

Well, I did experience Motorhead during the Overkill and Ace Of Spades tours, so too loud is a label I just can not put on any band nowadays. Since you did not watch Tremonti live this is becoming a pretty senseless discussion. We're discussing how metal this band is but now I feel this is a discussion between my experience and your assumptions. That's not a real discussion. We only agree about not agreeing. Let's leave this for what it is and make room for people to discuss the real topic of this thread. Please keep in mind that this Alter Bridge forum website only excists beceause Creed ended ; that band deserved a more special retrospective in my opinion, I feel this 3 cd version just feels somewhat rushed and I don't understand why. And yes, I pre-ordered it anyway as I would like to collect all that is somehow AB-related (and I'm not a Creed-hater !). Cheers !

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby BSC » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:38 pm

I don't know whether I'm too late to this discuss or not, but I think I listen to a fair bit of metal (looking forward to seeing Sylosis, Children of Bodom, Lamb of God and Megadeth next week), I'd call Tremonti a metal band, but I wouldn't call them a very good metal band.

I think Tremonti's sound offers a very accessible metal sound for people that tend to like bands like Alter Bridge and other associated bands who play hard rock. I'm not too keen on Tremonti but I've certainly supported the band, in fact, I'm seeing them live next month.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby chtimixeur » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:23 am

BSC wrote:looking forward to seeing Sylosis

:headbang
Lucky you

riemslag1 wrote:We're discussing how metal this band is but now I feel this is a discussion between my experience and your assumptions.

LOLWUT ? :lol
Ever heard of CD's ?
Despite your enthusiasm, I highly doubt Tremonti is the new Slayer/Metallica/Sepultura/Machine Head/Testament. Why do I say that ? :headscratch
Well, because I've actually listened to their albums, and I have a pretty good idea of what their music sounds like... I know, I know, that's pretty "senseless" because I haven't seen them live.

riemslag1 wrote:Please keep in mind that this Alter Bridge forum website only excists beceause Creed ended

So what ?
What do you mean with this sentence ?
Can't we talk about certain things on this forum ?

that band deserved a more special retrospective in my opinion, I feel this 3 cd version just feels somewhat rushed and I don't understand why

My assumption is that there is not much material left.
The band's first run didn't last that long when you think about it, so the chances of finding some rare stuff decently recorded are pretty slim.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby riemslag1 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:17 am

If you are right about that last thing, than that would really be a shame. Creed was pretty BIG in the states, so I assumend and hoped for more rarities or acoustic stuff available for this release. Anyway, the idea of waiting for a real celebration date and adding some new staff appeals to me, but obviously that's just not goiing to happen.
Sure I heard of CDs or the modern equivalents but the point was and is that this band sounds so much different and better live than on CD, just like most of the other bands we mentioned (imo). For instance : I saw Judas Priest several times live, a great live band but the CDs really suck, mostly due to production. No new rock/metal band will ever reach the status of these old bands ; unfortunately the popularity of rock/metal is getting less and less, somebody over here opened another thread raising the question if metal is dying ? ; besides that in the after LP/CD-era, no band in whatever genre will be able to top the popularity of the major bands from those days. Music industry has just changed, if it's for the better I don't know but for sure it seems harder for bands nowadays to reach that old established status due to lesser means of generating revenue. But maybe it's just I'm getting to old to keep up with all of these developments and things are not so dramatically at all. I think anything can be discussed in this forum, certainly the way we do it ! Just trying to keep the topic pure. This thread is about Creeds retrospective and imo discussions about Tremonti have their own threads. No bad intentions there towards you from me.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby cesargil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:37 pm

Any news about the release date? Will it be release on November 13th?

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby vChris » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:54 am

JaredWard says November 20th :) Besides that Amazon has re-activated preorder with that date. €23. I'm not sure if it is even financially worth it for them to release it now randomly instead of later at a meaningful date? I am sure there would be attention coming from magazines and websites and radio stations in the anniversary year anyway, so wouldn't that be good advertisment for them?

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby BSC » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:44 am

Bare in mind that this box set hasn't officially been announced yet (i.e. there hasn't been a press release), we've only got this Amazon listing, not forgetting that Amazon are notorious for listing things before they even know whether they'll actually get it in stock. Until there's some kind of official announcement, I wouldn't be surprised if the release date keeps on getting pushed back.

I'd be incredibly surprised if it comes out this month, there's been no advertising for it at all.

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective' (Nov. 20th)

Postby JaredWard » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:08 pm

I wouldn't get your hopes up for November 20th. The Amazon preorder is still unavailable & with no promotion it's looking like they're delaying it.

Here's the link:
www.amazon.com/Arms-Wide-Open-Retrospec ... 015FWTBK2/

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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective'

Postby vChris » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:41 pm


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Re: 'With Arms Wide Open: A Retrospective'

Postby nagpo » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:23 pm

us amazon is probably more reliable i would think. I don't think it will come out at that date, maybe at all


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