Marching In Time

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scarecrow
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Re: Marching In Time

Post by scarecrow »

it should go without saying but the choruses are always going to be less technical on the guitar side of things because mark's writing with live performance in mind.

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Re: Marching In Time

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double post

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Ubik »

scarecrow wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:41 pm
"catchiness" is good lmao. that's the point of a chorus.

really can't believe people are reacting this way because of some abrupt changes from minor to major. geez.

i'd love some key changes on future records, that'd really bother some of you. :lol
I think Timo's point, and he can call me a knobhead if I'm wrong, was that "melody" should encompass and be coherent across an entire song, rather than just be a catchy hook in a big chorus put into a frame that may not quite fit. It's always been a talking point given the way Mark writes and it's not gonna work for everyone every time, and it is more detectable for me on this album than it was on ADM. Still a ton to enjoy though, and I'm pretty sure it's been received better on here than either Ides of March of Walk the Sky were (even if I prefer those myself.)
For all of the hope that it brings...

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Timotheus »

I don't think it's bad perse to have a chorus that's in contrast with the rest of the song, but if you're gonna do that, make the contrast really big, so it stands out even more. If you need a key change to do that, by all means (Flying Monkey does that really well, for example). Also don't do it all the time.

For the rest, I agree with your interpretation of my post, Ubik. Would never call you a knobhead :lol

Catchiness is not always good. Metallica also uses major chords in the chorus of Master Of Puppets. But it's not cliché catchy. That song also has fantastic melodies in the bridge. Also a key change by the way. Obviously it's not fair to compare with one of the best and famous songs in metal history, but I think that's a mix of melody/heaviness that works really well.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Marching In Time

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Ubik wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:19 pm
scarecrow wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:41 pm
"catchiness" is good lmao. that's the point of a chorus.

really can't believe people are reacting this way because of some abrupt changes from minor to major. geez.

i'd love some key changes on future records, that'd really bother some of you. :lol
I think Timo's point, and he can call me a knobhead if I'm wrong, was that "melody" should encompass and be coherent across an entire song, rather than just be a catchy hook in a big chorus put into a frame that may not quite fit. It's always been a talking point given the way Mark writes and it's not gonna work for everyone every time, and it is more detectable for me on this album than it was on ADM. Still a ton to enjoy though, and I'm pretty sure it's been received better on here than either Ides of March of Walk the Sky were (even if I prefer those myself.)
I guess I'm just annoyed that Mark *finally* has a project that's all his and firing on all cylinders and it's being picked apart by his "fans."

This is a little ironic coming from the person who blasted Rise Today for being too fluffy, I know. But I've become so un-precious about genres and styles that seeing Mark combine thrash metal with pop choruses (and do it more successfully than anyone that I'm aware of) is pretty exciting.

There has been some clunkiness in the past. From The Sky, for example, still confuses me. In retrospect it seems like a trial run for much of this album. And while I don't enjoy that song, I love watching artists progress in real time. And so much of this album is an enormous step forward.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Mr. Slash »

Tbh, there are few Tremonti/AB songs which I would consider to have a catchy chorus, so I do not quite get point Timo is making.

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Re: Marching In Time

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Mr. Slash wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:06 pm Tbh, there are few Tremonti/AB songs which I would consider to have a catchy chorus, so I do not quite get point Timo is making.
Really? I feel like there are dozens.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Sugar Blade »

I've avoided listening to singles, because nowadays promotional campaigns in music industry became so aggressive that you will potentially hear 80% of the album before it's been released, which will leave you with no suprises and some fatigue.

After one listening all I can say that it had even less effect on me than Walk the Sky. I would even say that it's a whole album of nothingness: just the same tropes, tired song structures and lyrical themes that was done before by Mark. It's like someone trained a neural network on his previous solo records and run it to generate a new album. A Dying Machine was a theme park and Marching in Time felt like driving on a perfectly smooth road from home to office without any unexpected bumps here and there.

Some people in this thread said that Mark writes his songs as he pleased and I don't believe that's truth anymore. This whole album felt like it's deliberately designed to be inserted in some Modern Hard Rock playlist at Spotify (anyone who made a mistake and listened to one of those knows what I am talking about). Maybe our favourite producer is not just raping our ears anymore, but also having more creative control than he should.

Lately I've felt burned out by music and this album definetely added to that. At least some of the Myles'es new songs are pretty good.

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Re: Marching In Time

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Re: Marching In Time

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Timotheus wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:59 pm I get that Tremonti is a band that mixes melody with metal, but I think there's a huge difference between "melody" and blatantly obvious pop. Some of these choruses I'd expect from Nickelodeon / Disney Channel type of bands. It just sounds heavier because of the distortion, and because Mark doesn't sound like Ariana Grande.

If you like that blend of sounds, more power to you. I personally think it's a cop-out. He's not actually focusing on melody. He's focusing on catchiness. But that leaves parts of songs that are either boring or highly disjointed with the choruses.

Anyway, of course Mark's a great artist, so musically there are some really great moments on this record. He's also grown a lot as a singer. But this albums ranks pretty low for me. I think it's quite comparable to Dust for me, where I think 2-3 songs are really good, but the rest is really underwhelming. For me this is a step down from A Dying Machine.
Bingo. I've found myself listening to A World Away, Let That Be Us, In One Piece and Marching in Time and skipping the rest of the album entirely. I definitely do not think ADM was topped at all with this album.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by SHEAKENBAKEN »

Anyone got any takes on what these songs could be about? They are the only songs Mark hasn't given an explanation for as far as I know.

Now And Forever
Let That Be Us
In One Piece
Not Afraid To Lose
Bleak

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by anguyen92 »

As a guy that knows a lot of stuff about Modern Hard Rock, Active Rock, Octane, etc. I'm going to say this. It's amusing when people make that kind of comment on how AB and Tremonti seems to gun for that Active Rock charts in the singles so people think AB/Tremonti is tailoring their sound to appeal to that demographic. Maybe that could an intention, but I've seen various bands get that success with songs that just don't have a certain flair that even AB/Tremonti singles do.

What I am also saying is formulaic fun can still be fun and people can have more fun listening to this album and Mark's bag of tricks than anything within the Octane and Active Rock circles and say it's a 10/10 album. Sometimes, that's all that matters to those people. Enjoyment can still be a factor over "this is quality art and innovative, blah, blah, blah."

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Re: Marching In Time

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anguyen92 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:14 pm Enjoyment can still be a factor over "this is quality art and innovative, blah, blah, blah."
I think at the end of the day someone’s personal enjoyment from the album is going to be the metric they use to measure with. I can objectively agree with Timo’s opinion on how he views the choruses while at the same time personally disagreeing with the assessment because I like the catchy choruses on this album. It’s not going to be everyone’s favorite and I get it.

I think A Dying Machine (the title track) is the best thing he’s written with a chorus that just kinda fits the song and isn’t very pop-rock in nature. I like both styles pretty well but I see why some don’t.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by chtimixeur »

Timotheus wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:59 pm I think there's a huge difference between "melody" and blatantly obvious pop. Some of these choruses I'd expect from Nickelodeon / Disney Channel type of bands. It just sounds heavier because of the distortion, and because Mark doesn't sound like Ariana Grande.

If you like that blend of sounds, more power to you. I personally think it's a cop-out. He's not actually focussing on melody. He's focussing on catchiness.
You're making an interesting point, and I think you're right.
Nowadays, melody isn't that big of a deal anymore in the music industry, and all young listeners care about are catchy hooks.
So Mark is probably adapting the way he's writing music to the current times, and even though I wish he took more risks, it makes sense for him to do so.

anguyen92 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:14 pm What I am also saying is formulaic fun can still be fun
Yes it can.
But on almost every song of every album?
It makes everything sound the same, and I don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to have a hard time telling which song belongs to which Tremonti album.
That is not the case with AB at all, by the way.

Sugar Blade wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:38 pmI would even say that it's a whole album of nothingness: just the same tropes, tired song structures and lyrical themes that was done before by Mark. It's like someone trained a neural network on his previous solo records and run it to generate a new album.
...
Some people in this thread said that Mark writes his songs as he pleased and I don't believe that's truth anymore.
...
Maybe our favourite producer is not just raping our ears anymore, but also having more creative control than he should.
:lol
I'm sure it will grow on you eventually.

Lastly, here are my current favourites:
1. Marching in Time (probably my favourite Tremonti song, despite some poor transitions)
2. Would You Kill
3. Let That Be Us
4. A World Away
5. Thrown Further
6. Now and Forever

I don't care much about the softer songs (yet).

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by scarecrow »

anguyen92 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:14 pm As a guy that knows a lot of stuff about Modern Hard Rock, Active Rock, Octane, etc. I'm going to say this. It's amusing when people make that kind of comment on how AB and Tremonti seems to gun for that Active Rock charts in the singles so people think AB/Tremonti is tailoring their sound to appeal to that demographic. Maybe that could an intention, but I've seen various bands get that success with songs that just don't have a certain flair that even AB/Tremonti singles do.

What I am also saying is formulaic fun can still be fun and people can have more fun listening to this album and Mark's bag of tricks than anything within the Octane and Active Rock circles and say it's a 10/10 album. Sometimes, that's all that matters to those people. Enjoyment can still be a factor over "this is quality art and innovative, blah, blah, blah."
I used to be a film critic and this reminds me of the debate over the MCU and "comfort food" cinema.

Are there a lot of "comfort food" elements to this album? Yes. And that's always been a part of Mark. He loves yacht rock just as much as he loves thrash. That's who he is. There's always been a commercial element to what he does because A) I think he genuinely loves a good hook and B) that's what brings fans in. Is there a more creatively fulfilling endeavor out there for him? Maybe, but there wouldn't be much of an audience for it. He's not Tool, he can't get away with 15-minute songs.

Imagine paying to see an MCU movie and leaving upset that there were too many special effects and not enough character development. :lol

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Re: Marching In Time

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scarecrow wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:32 pm I used to be a film critic and this reminds me of the debate over the MCU and "comfort food" cinema.

Are there a lot of "comfort food" elements to this album? Yes. And that's always been a part of Mark. He loves yacht rock just as much as he loves thrash. That's who he is. There's always been a commercial element to what he does because A) I think he genuinely loves a good hook and B) that's what brings fans in. Is there a more creatively fulfilling endeavor out there for him? Maybe, but there wouldn't be much of an audience for it. He's not Tool, he can't get away with 15-minute songs.

Imagine paying to see an MCU movie and leaving upset that there were too many special effects and not enough character development. :lol

This is...a bad argument.

You can't say with any definitive authority that he can/cannot get away with writing longer songs, nor can you say there wouldn't be an audience for it. There are plenty of us who do prefer the more epic side of things vs commercialism, so please don't act as a mouth piece for anyone but yourself when making large claims like these.

Also, yeah, it's perfectly fine to be upset with Marvel movies when they throw literally any sense of seriousness/character development out the window in favor of a quip. It's just lazy.

Anywho, that's my two cents. Don't wanna argue anymore, but jesus, some of you get so buttmad when not everyone loves the same things you love.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by scarecrow »

DCooper727 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:47 pm
scarecrow wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:32 pm I used to be a film critic and this reminds me of the debate over the MCU and "comfort food" cinema.

Are there a lot of "comfort food" elements to this album? Yes. And that's always been a part of Mark. He loves yacht rock just as much as he loves thrash. That's who he is. There's always been a commercial element to what he does because A) I think he genuinely loves a good hook and B) that's what brings fans in. Is there a more creatively fulfilling endeavor out there for him? Maybe, but there wouldn't be much of an audience for it. He's not Tool, he can't get away with 15-minute songs.

Imagine paying to see an MCU movie and leaving upset that there were too many special effects and not enough character development. :lol
You can't say with any definitive authority that he can/cannot get away with writing longer songs, nor can you say there wouldn't be an audience for it. There are plenty of us who do prefer the more epic side of things vs commercialism, so please don't act as a mouth piece for anyone but yourself when making large claims like these.
a few people on a message board is not an audience.

he's doing what he wants to do.

stay mad.

(and the marvel comparison totally went over your head. criticizing them is totally fair, but expecting them to be something they're not is absurd.)

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by scarecrow »

the only thing i'm actually upset about now is how awful the vocals sound on forever falling when they sound so good on this album.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by cheesedip1 »

Man I like when songs have a decent chorus. It doesn’t have to be amazing but it can’t be weak.

That’s generally because imo good choruses can be hard to write.

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