Choice of singles

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jcrowe
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Choice of singles

Postby jcrowe » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:00 pm

I can't be the only one frustrated with the lack of spins on channels like Octane. Many Tremonti songs would find themselves at home on this channel and would surely add to the fanbase.
It has to be due to the songs that Tremonti (and AB for that matter) choose to release as singles. They operate like it is still the 90s and they need a radio friendly crowd pleaser. But Rock is so fractured these days... they would be smarter to swing to the harder side and just try to please a crowd like Octane. Most of Tremonti's catalog lives in this space anyways. Who decides to roll with "take you with me" vs. "Make it Hurt", "A dying machine" or even "a lot like sin?" Is it the record label? Management? Tremonti himself? I'm really curious more than anything.

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Andy92
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Re: Choice of singles

Postby Andy92 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:10 pm

I tend to agree the day of FM rock radio singles are almost nonexistent for modern groups. FM only plays Metallica, Ozzy, GNR, etc. Occassionally some of the largest “new” names like A7X get played on FM, but that’s about it.

I listen to Octane a lot, and I see your point for why Octane doesn’t play their singles as much. I think Make It Hurt or Throw Them to the Lions would be ace songs for that channel. Will they get played on FM? Doubt it. But is FM playing any of their other singles? Not since Isolation they haven’t been. And the state of FM has only gotten worse throughout this decade, so it seems like that avenue is becoming a lost cause.
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fix
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Re: Choice of singles

Postby fix » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:19 am

jcrowe wrote:Who decides to roll with "take you with me" vs. "Make it Hurt", "A dying machine" or even "a lot like sin?" Is it the record label? Management? Tremonti himself? I'm really curious more than anything.


That was basically everyone except Mark. He said it on the Jasta podcast the other day, that everyone in and around the band thought that 'Take You With Me' would do very very well. Mark wasn't a fan of the idea and well...he was right in the end.

That podcast also talks about that you need to pay the radio stations for rotation and how it's not always worth it. Interesting listen. https://soundcloud.com/jameyjasta/episo ... k-tremonti

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Re: Choice of singles

Postby jcrowe » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:35 pm

Well that was timely, and a fascinating listen. Thanks for sharing.

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anguyen92
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Re: Choice of singles

Postby anguyen92 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:42 pm

I always do like it when Mark is on the Jasta show where we get to hear a lot of deep stuff when it comes to the industry side of things. Mark stated a couple of some intriguing points when it comes to radio singles. I remembered back around Fortress where the fanbase pushed for Cry of Achilles to be the second single for Fortress after charting top five in Active Rock radio with Addicted to Pain. I felt like they almost were pushing for Farther Than the Sun for the second single back then (I have no verification or evidence that it almost happened. Just a hunch, given that they were still playing the song live after the Fortress cycle was over). Anyway, radio really gutted the single from the 6:30 masterpiece to about 4 minutes and they really took away almost all of the cool stuff that made the song awesome. Sadly, they did not get the A7X pull where if A7X released a 6:30 minute track on radio, it gets played in full. AB did not get that treatment. Where did Cry of Achilles peaked at on Active Rock radio? Only top 20. This was a song that most fans felt that it was a top five Alter Bridge song. Maybe a top two song. Maybe to some fans, the best song they ever crafted. It only charted in the top 20.

That made me sad and I can understand the sentiments from the band and management regarding not wanting to care too much about pushing for a top 5 chart topping single on Active Rock radio and maybe try to release the most catchiest/ballady stuff first and hope that catches fire (no pun intended) on radio and not spend too much money for a radio push. Jasta had a great term for those ballady songs. Promcore......... They listed Hoobastank's The Reason and All That Remains' What if I Was Nothing as examples for reference. Anyway, Alter Bridge didn't really attain their fanbase based on chart-topping singles (they do have five top five singles on Active Rock though...., all of them still on the regular live shows). Just mainly good word of mouth and releasing quality albums and that early WWE exposure push.....

I find it intriguing that Mark stated that he felt that AB and Tremonti doesn't have that one song like an Enter Sandman or a Last Resort or a Bring Me to Life sort of track. That one track where it's so recognizable that non-rock fans knows it. However, in our eyes, AB has that track with Metalingus (although it was not a radio single. Just the theme song of a prominent WWE superstar for 7 years, but Edge retired 7 years ago and so does that connection with WWE fades away since then). Isolation hit #1 on active rock, but while it's a great single that AB needed to have, it wasn't on the level of recognition those tracks I mentioned.

Mark then brings up another great point in the podcast. AB and Tremonti has many songs that the fans knows and loves that the radio market doesn't know, but should know but didn't for whatever reason. A mainstream crowd would not understand why Words Darker Than Their Wings played at the Royal Albert Hall is such a big deal, but the majority of the AB fanbase does. The point, here, is despite radio not giving AB much of a push like FFDP or Greta Van Fleet, AB has done quite well for themselves without that one big song that everyone would know. They played the Wiltern theater twice (1,600 people capacity) in LA and I never hear their stuff on KROQ (which is the alternative rock station that plays Foo Fighters, Linkin Park, etc.) or KLOS (the classic rock station, but they do promote a lot of local shows and does giveaways to a fair amount of modern acts shows at times). They've subheadlined Download twice and done a couple of arena tours and big theaters in Europe without the big radio push or the big song that all the mainstream crowd knows. Not too shabby, and I would say as a fan of them for 11 years, I would not have it any other way.

That stated, there are some negatives about radio shunning AB and Tremonti. After all, radio sometimes can be a good gauge on what markets can be feasible to do a show. I hope in the AB camp's attempt to go against having to do the big radio campaign that they do their research on other outlets and gauge good markets well and schedule the shows well so that it can be packed to the brim as it should be.

Our man here, Gbruin, Greg. He's always thirsty for more AB and want to see Tremonti and Myles in the huge mountains of Denver. The few times they played Denver, he felt that the shows weren't as packed in Denver like it is in a big market like LA, NYC, Chicago, etc. He felt the rock radio station in Denver is shunning AB for no justified reason whatsoever. If that's the case for AB, what chances are there for a Tremonti show or a Myles solo show in Denver and how can Tim Tournier and management find out if it is worth their while to do those shows there if AB has a rough going in Denver? The same can be said about other not-as popular markets.

I don't know why I'm typing random stuff for the last 20 minutes or so about this topic, but I just find it fascinating how everyone in the AB camp can do what they love without much pushing from the mainstream outlets and I just love rooting for them to keep going and want to see them overcome all of that and succeed on their terms.

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Re: Choice of singles

Postby fix » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:27 am

anguyen92 wrote:I don't know why I'm typing random stuff for the last 20 minutes or so about this topic, but I just find it fascinating how everyone in the AB camp can do what they love without much pushing from the mainstream outlets and I just love rooting for them to keep going and want to see them overcome all of that and succeed on their terms.


Well I never understood the whole 'radio thing'. It's very American I suppose. In The Netherlands there is no 'rock station' or hard rock ever played on the radio. We don't watch WWE or whatever, so we didn't know Metalingus. But look at 'Live in Amsterdam', so that crowd comes from something else. Mainly online and word of mouth. There's a huge hard rock and metal crowd in Europe that find their music online, because that's the only place it is these days.

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Re: Choice of singles

Postby gbruin » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:47 am

Appreciate the shout out, Kev. Tim has said many times that it's not really up to the band where they play as much as it is to the local promoters who are willing to book a venue for the band and sell tickets to the show. The promoters do this with the plan that they will make money on the show, so it's clear that the local promoters aren't as bullish on AB as a lot of the places along the east coast or across Europe are. That totally sucks for us here, but it really isn't the fault of the band or management. I've railed on the POS hard rock radio station here in town which has a playlist that consists of about 4 bands (because so many understandably refuse to pay for airplay), so without any local radio support or other means for AB to grow its audience here, we're probably doomed to remain pretty low on the list of priorities for a lot of bands.

I've also met a few singers who have said that singing in Denver (as well as places like Salt Lake City and the like) is harder because of the altitude and dry air. Add that to the fact that we are close to 10 hours from the nearest large cities (Kansas City, Salt Lake, Vegas) and you can see why Denver isn't very convenient and doesn't often fit well into a band's tour schedule.
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Re: Choice of singles

Postby TenaciousBe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:39 pm

anguyen92 wrote:I always do like it when Mark is on the Jasta show where we get to hear a lot of deep stuff when it comes to the industry side of things. Mark stated a couple of some intriguing points when it comes to radio singles. I remembered back around Fortress where the fanbase pushed for Cry of Achilles to be the second single for Fortress after charting top five in Active Rock radio with Addicted to Pain. I felt like they almost were pushing for Farther Than the Sun for the second single back then (I have no verification or evidence that it almost happened. Just a hunch, given that they were still playing the song live after the Fortress cycle was over). Anyway, radio really gutted the single from the 6:30 masterpiece to about 4 minutes and they really took away almost all of the cool stuff that made the song awesome. Sadly, they did not get the A7X pull where if A7X released a 6:30 minute track on radio, it gets played in full. AB did not get that treatment. Where did Cry of Achilles peaked at on Active Rock radio? Only top 20. This was a song that most fans felt that it was a top five Alter Bridge song. Maybe a top two song. Maybe to some fans, the best song they ever crafted. It only charted in the top 20.

That made me sad and I can understand the sentiments from the band and management regarding not wanting to care too much about pushing for a top 5 chart topping single on Active Rock radio and maybe try to release the most catchiest/ballady stuff first and hope that catches fire (no pun intended) on radio and not spend too much money for a radio push. Jasta had a great term for those ballady songs. Promcore......... They listed Hoobastank's The Reason and All That Remains' What if I Was Nothing as examples for reference. Anyway, Alter Bridge didn't really attain their fanbase based on chart-topping singles (they do have five top five singles on Active Rock though...., all of them still on the regular live shows). Just mainly good word of mouth and releasing quality albums and that early WWE exposure push.....

I find it intriguing that Mark stated that he felt that AB and Tremonti doesn't have that one song like an Enter Sandman or a Last Resort or a Bring Me to Life sort of track. That one track where it's so recognizable that non-rock fans knows it. However, in our eyes, AB has that track with Metalingus (although it was not a radio single. Just the theme song of a prominent WWE superstar for 7 years, but Edge retired 7 years ago and so does that connection with WWE fades away since then). Isolation hit #1 on active rock, but while it's a great single that AB needed to have, it wasn't on the level of recognition those tracks I mentioned.

Mark then brings up another great point in the podcast. AB and Tremonti has many songs that the fans knows and loves that the radio market doesn't know, but should know but didn't for whatever reason. A mainstream crowd would not understand why Words Darker Than Their Wings played at the Royal Albert Hall is such a big deal, but the majority of the AB fanbase does. The point, here, is despite radio not giving AB much of a push like FFDP or Greta Van Fleet, AB has done quite well for themselves without that one big song that everyone would know. They played the Wiltern theater twice (1,600 people capacity) in LA and I never hear their stuff on KROQ (which is the alternative rock station that plays Foo Fighters, Linkin Park, etc.) or KLOS (the classic rock station, but they do promote a lot of local shows and does giveaways to a fair amount of modern acts shows at times). They've subheadlined Download twice and done a couple of arena tours and big theaters in Europe without the big radio push or the big song that all the mainstream crowd knows. Not too shabby, and I would say as a fan of them for 11 years, I would not have it any other way.

That stated, there are some negatives about radio shunning AB and Tremonti. After all, radio sometimes can be a good gauge on what markets can be feasible to do a show. I hope in the AB camp's attempt to go against having to do the big radio campaign that they do their research on other outlets and gauge good markets well and schedule the shows well so that it can be packed to the brim as it should be.

Our man here, Gbruin, Greg. He's always thirsty for more AB and want to see Tremonti and Myles in the huge mountains of Denver. The few times they played Denver, he felt that the shows weren't as packed in Denver like it is in a big market like LA, NYC, Chicago, etc. He felt the rock radio station in Denver is shunning AB for no justified reason whatsoever. If that's the case for AB, what chances are there for a Tremonti show or a Myles solo show in Denver and how can Tim Tournier and management find out if it is worth their while to do those shows there if AB has a rough going in Denver? The same can be said about other not-as popular markets.

I don't know why I'm typing random stuff for the last 20 minutes or so about this topic, but I just find it fascinating how everyone in the AB camp can do what they love without much pushing from the mainstream outlets and I just love rooting for them to keep going and want to see them overcome all of that and succeed on their terms.


A great read, and I agree on every point. It's been frustrating being a fan of this band for the past decade+, and wanting to grab the rest of the rock world and shake them by the shoulders and say "WHY AREN'T YOU FUCKING LISTENING TO THIS BAND?!" On the other, selfish hand, it's kind of nice that they don't get arena-big so as to retain that more intimate, "this is my band" feel. But they gotta make their money or they can't keep going, so... I don't know. It's hard watching them play huge shows in Europe, filming every concert DVD in Europe, always touring first in Europe, but that's where people pay attention to them, so that's where they have to go. Makes a person wonder, with 5 albums under their belt and a 6th on the way, with all the side projects now available to them, just how much longer AB will continue to be a viable entity...
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One Drew Remains
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Re: Choice of singles

Postby One Drew Remains » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:57 pm

I've just about given up on Octane. It seems like it's mainly shock rock or detuned sounding crass rockers anymore.
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