Cauterize Production

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Jim
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Jim » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:35 am

I'd raise my hand if Alter Bridge asked a sea of people if they should change producers.. Jus'sayin
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby AllC392Was » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:53 am

I don't have a problem with Cauterize but then again I don't really pay attention to production when listening to Tremonti Solo stuff. The only album that makes me think if a 5 year old mixed it is AB3.

I like Elvis but it be cool to see what other producer can do for AB.
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby chtimixeur » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:23 am

The weird thing about Mark is he keeps saying he wants to improve constantly and not repeat himself whatsoever. But meanwhile, he's unwilling to change the producer he's been working with for 9 years.

What about taking a leap of faith and not doing the easy thing for once ?
As "talented" as Elvis is, he knows Mark way too much to have any creative input on him anymore.
Look at Providence for instance. Elvis told Mark Cauterize was missing a Blackbird kind of song, and what did happen ? Mark wrote a Blackbird-like song, except it's not as fresh.
Working with someone who has no preconceptions about Mark as an artist may do wonders, because he would probably stop repeating himself so much

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Jaded Rescue » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:01 pm

chtimixeur wrote:The weird thing about Mark is he keeps saying he wants to improve constantly and not repeat himself whatsoever. But meanwhile, he's unwilling to change the producer he's been working with for 9 years.

What about taking a leap of faith and not doing the easy thing for once ?
As "talented" as Elvis is, he knows Mark way too much to have any creative input on him anymore.
Look at Providence for instance. Elvis told Mark Cauterize was missing a Blackbird kind of song, and what did happen ? Mark wrote a Blackbird-like song, except it's not as fresh.
Working with someone who has no preconceptions about Mark as an artist may do wonders, because he would probably stop repeating himself so much

A thousand times this. Providence felt so much like it was just trying to be another Blackbird. Fortress was an epic as well, but it at least had its own personality. Providence just felt like a copy.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby riemslag1 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:24 pm

That's weird. I don't recognize Mark repeating himself over and over again at all. No AB record looked very much the same as the one before and Cauterize sounds different from All I was. Possibly Dust will sound similar to Cauterize as beiing recorded in the same session, but I myself do think the years that Mark repeated himself the most were probably by far (!) the earlier Creed-years, and even then it was not irritating. The AB and Tremonti records show a musician in constant development, I just don't get it that someone would call his last 6 records an artist repeating himself over and over again. But Ok, that's what these forums are made for, to share different opinions.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Jaded Rescue » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:28 pm

riemslag1 wrote:That's weird. I don't recognize Mark repeating himself over and over again at all. No AB record looked very much the same as the one before and Cauterize sounds different from All I was. Possibly Dust will sound similar to Cauterize as beiing recorded in the same session, but I myself do think the years that Mark repeated himself the most were probably by far (!) the earlier Creed-years, and even then it was not irritating. The AB and Tremonti records show a musician in constant development, I just don't get it that someone would call his last 6 records an artist repeating himself over and over again. But Ok, that's what these forums are made for, to share different opinions.

We're not saying he re-uses riffs or anything of that nature. But I'd say since Blackbird he hasn't really changed his writing style all that much. Some of us would like to hear the band do something different. Like for me, personally, I'd love for them to connect with Butch Vig and do an entire album to tape with no effects.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby riemslag1 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:07 pm

Indeed analog recording could result in something really special. Not many artists nowadays will try to do so unfortunately.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Fish Tacos » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:30 pm

I still don't understand why people don't like Elvis. Usually when I look up the mixers they suggest the tracks sound underproduced to me. His work sounds fuller to me.
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby SHEAKENBAKEN » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:36 pm

Fish Tacos wrote:I still don't understand why people don't like Elvis. Usually when I look up the mixers they suggest the tracks sound underproduced to me. His work sounds fuller to me.

:yeahthat
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Take The Sun » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:57 am

I don't mind Elvis, and I really don't mind the production on Cauterize, or Dust for that matter.

There's just one thing that irks me the tiniest bit, and it's that overly dry and crunchy guitar tone. It works for these albums, because the bass balances it out, and it actually makes notes that would be drowned out on most albums sound prominent here. But I still know it's there.

And it's there on a fair few Elvis albums. I'm familiar with many of these because I love a lot of genres, including post-hardcore. Take a quick listen to some of these, and you'll hear that same overly dry guitar tone.

2006 - Escape the Fate - Dying Is Your Latest Fashion
2009 - Blessthefall - Witness
2011 - Blessthefall - Awakening
2011 - Falling In Reverse - The Drug In Me Is You (really noticeable here)

It's also prominent on Blackbird. I hear the guitar on that album as trebly and crunchy, but it's again balanced out by the bass. Now that I'm listening, I hear it a bit on Fortress too, but to a lesser extent.

Again, it's not a complaint, I just hear it and it's very prominent.
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby SHEAKENBAKEN » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:02 am

Take The Sun wrote:I don't mind Elvis, and I really don't mind the production on Cauterize, or Dust for that matter.

There's just one thing that irks me the tiniest bit, and it's that overly dry and crunchy guitar tone. It works for these albums, because the bass balances it out, and it actually makes notes that would be drowned out on most albums sound prominent here. But I still know it's there.

And it's there on a fair few Elvis albums. I'm familiar with many of these because I love a lot of genres, including post-hardcore. Take a quick listen to some of these, and you'll hear that same overly dry guitar tone.

2006 - Escape the Fate - Dying Is Your Latest Fashion
2009 - Blessthefall - Witness
2011 - Blessthefall - Awakening
2011 - Falling In Reverse - The Drug In Me Is You (really noticeable here)

It's also prominent on Blackbird. I hear the guitar on that album as trebly and crunchy, but it's again balanced out by the bass. Now that I'm listening, I hear it a bit on Fortress too, but to a lesser extent.

Again, it's not a complaint, I just hear it and it's very prominent.

Well apparently they (Mark, Myles, etc) all seem to love the crunchy guitar tones. I think I've even heard them refer to it as crunchy before as well :lol
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Take The Sun » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:07 am

Absolutely. They have to, because I'm sure Mark had the final say on this go 'round. And it REALLY sounds great in the bridge to Cauterize itself.

It's just very noticeable to me since I'm a guitar tone freak. It bothered me when the album first came out, but now it's just kind of there, you know what I mean?
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby SHEAKENBAKEN » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:09 am

Take The Sun wrote:Absolutely. They have to, because I'm sure Mark had the final say on this go 'round. And it REALLY sounds great in the bridge to Cauterize itself.

It's just very noticeable to me since I'm a guitar tone freak. It bothered me when the album first came out, but now it's just kind of there, you know what I mean?


I guess so :shrug :lol Personally tones have never been something I focus on. If it sounds great, that's fucking great! If it sounds alright, I don't really mind. :lol
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Take The Sun » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:10 am

I definitely enjoy the sound of this album more than the tone on All I Was, so there's that haha.
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby Darren » Wed May 25, 2016 6:11 am

I have a massive gripe with Michael Baskette concerning the bass drum on the Cauterize and Dust albums in particular. He doesn't realise that a bass drum should be more feel than it is sound. It is about air movement and capturing the bass and sub bass frequencies, not recording a slappy wet sound that reminds me of a person being hit across the face with a freshly caught fish.

He compensates for this by pushing that slapping sound way up in the mix until it dominates everything. I cannot believe that no one in the band brought this up when they heard the end result, it's amateurish. He's getting paid a fortune to take top of the line gear and make it sound crap. I wonder how many more classic albums he will be allowed to ruin in this fashion. Makes me rage.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby BSC » Wed May 25, 2016 2:02 pm

I really agree with your post, my review of Dust made the same point you made. The riffs lose their heaviness due to the sound of the bass drum and Elvis's overall production.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby poshisjarker » Wed May 25, 2016 5:18 pm

Bingo...bass drum. Yeah that's a huge part of the problem. Spot on. It really irritates me. Tie The Noose and Cauterize in particular really seem to have some issues there. I will say though...doesn't really make any sense, but Dust overall sounds way better to me than Cauterize. At least i can say that the production doesn't ruin any songs for me like on Cauterize lol...but i don't know, still doesn't sound great to me. But, like some have mentioned...it's stunning to me that apparently nobody at any point listened to the final mix and took any issue with any of the sound. Several little sections here and there on the album that just sound straight fuzzy and not defined, whether blasted in the car or listened to with earbuds. Oh well. I love the music
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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby ToNsOFuN88 » Sat May 28, 2016 7:57 am

I generally don't have a problem with the production, and I love the tones personally. As a guitarist, I will say this; sometimes the different parts do sound mushed together. It doesn't really bother me when I'm listening as much, but when I'm trying to learn a song of theirs it does. If Mark didn't release a tutorial for how to play the chorus for his part on All Hope Is Gone, I wouldn't be able to play it. All you can hear is the power chords and a mesh of guitar sound on top of it. Doesn't bug me when I listen to it, but you literally can't tell what notes/chords are being played when you're trying to learn it for yourself.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby ToNsOFuN88 » Sat May 28, 2016 8:06 am

A good example is on dust. I know there is some keyboard on the chorus, but I literally can't tell what any note is except the first and last one. It's completely mushed in with everything else. It's like the only thing they try to make sound separate is the vocals from the drums and the guitars. Everything else is blended in with the mix.

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Re: Cauterize Production

Postby chtimixeur » Mon May 30, 2016 4:54 am

Really good posts, guys.
But realistically, nothing will change and Elvis will keep on getting hired to butcher Mark's music.
Some people just like good music to sound like crap, I guess.


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