Mark Plays Wikipedia: Fact or Fiction

[Fish Tacos]

I have no doubt that that's what Stapp believed happened. I just don't believe Stapp

[erv]

This is one awesome interview. I'm kind of bummed they are still tied to a loan they needed to take out to get rid of wind up. Talk about a creativity killer. I thought that was settled by now?

That, and his remark about odr sales in this day and age being pretty amazing is spot on. Back in 2004 those sales were awesome but wind up was too blindfolded and stuck up in the past over it. Wow.

I like how he let natural dynamics play things out though. I feel there's so much more ground for alter bridge and legs to cover it with now.

[Dolo]

Geez, what a crap. They have been outside of Wind-Up for 8 years and they still need to buy themselves out of this shit. Music labels are cancer of creative musicians.

[Fish Tacos]

Back in 2004 those sales were awesome but wind up was too blindfolded and stuck up in the past over it. Wow.

Honestly, as much as it pains me to say it, I think Wind-Up came out ahead. They buyout probably consisted of some sort of projected sales values based on Creed's sales.

Consider that ODR was only certified Gold (500K albums in 2004 eventually closer to 750K in 2008) compared to the multi-platinum figures of the previous albums. Blackbird wound up selling even less clocking in around 225k in 2008 which over time is probably closer to 300K with an additional 100k (rule of thumb is 1/3 of US figures for non-domestic sales). AB III was certified Silver by the British Phonographic Industry which only requires 60,000 album sales. Using the rule of thumb in reverse with room for growth gives about 250k albums sold in the US. I can't find much on Fortress other than the 30k first week sales but Blackbird had sold 47k copies in it's first week so if that's an appropriate analogous indicator, you can use that as you will.

Long story short, if they setup the buyout to reflect Creed's prior sales, Wind-Up definitely made more than they would have otherwise.

[anguyen92]

I wouldn't want to say music labels are cancer, per say. Wind-Up was though, because they wanted to be greedy motherf'ers and thought just because 3/4s of AB is in Creed means that they thought ODR was going to sell millions, and you can't really have those kinds of expectations for a new band, regardless of background. There are cases of fast rises in debut albums, but those are the exceptions, not the norm, so yeah, Wind-Up really screwed AB over there (and I can really say that since Mark said it in that video).

[austin.]

I don't really like to agree with Stapp. But, I mean, they were in the middle of writing/jamming Creed V, Stapp asks Mark his plans, and his plans are Alter Bridge. Before stuff got bad. In the middle of writing Creed V. Of course Stapp would be mad. Any rational musician would be mad if in the middle of a new album, and it gets aborted to do another band.

Why wasn't the plan to record the album, as any band would do when they're in the middle of working on it.

That's the missing link to the story.

[Fish Tacos]

It was when they were touring Full Circle. Stapp asked Mark what he was doing early next year because he wanted to start writing the next album at that time. Mark already had plans for AB. Stapp took it personally instead of thinking they might be able to do it after the AB record.

[Andy92]

I think this conversation happened when they were doing those tours where they played My Own Prison and Human Clay in full at each city. I'd have to look back at the timeline, but it seemed to me like they were supposed to record in the studio once that tour ended around June 2012, but they ended up scraping that, and then All I Was came out in July of that year. I think this convo happened around that summer, but I have a feeling Mark made up his mind about not wanting to record a 5th album that year a good while before he had that convo with Stapp. That's just a guess though, but given that Mark was getting ready to tour All I Was and that he didn't want to push AB back for another year, he knew Creed was the one that wasn't going to continue being active.

[Ryan]

Creed was gonna be like all these other side projects I'm sure. Every other year. Just like they've been doing now. When they were doing Creed, Myles linked up with Slash. Creed fell away and Tremonti took its place. Anyone can see that. Except stapp apparently. He thought it was Creed full time again.

[Fish Tacos]

He thought it was Creed full time again.

Which is honestly interesting to me. When I looked up some stats for record sales for my earlier post, Full Circle didn't even go Gold. A far cry from even their Greatest Hits CD.

[anguyen92]

He thought it was Creed full time again.

Which is honestly interesting to me. When I looked up some stats for record sales for my earlier post, Full Circle didn't even go Gold. A far cry from even their Greatest Hits CD.

While that's true that Full Circle didn't go gold, they still did well during that 2009-2010 tour. That said, there was pretty much no way that Creed was going to go at a full time scale like during the late 90s and 2000s regardless of how much sales Full Circle could have sold because of AB (despite the fact that Blackbird didn't really set the World on Fire, no pun intended, with the album sales but obviously, people loved that album and loved the idea of wanting more music from AB).

[Finaldecision]

I guess a little bit more communication could have helped these guys a lot.

[chtimixeur]

I think this conversation happened not once, but TWICE, hence he argument during the second time.
Remember Stapp's book. He was basically saying that in 2010, he was hoping Creed would tour in early 2011, but Mark decided to go record ABIII.
In his book, Stapp ended this chapter saying "Full Circle indeed", meaning that despite playing the nice guy and making amends on national TV, he/Creed had been abandoned once again after the 2004 break-up.

My guess is that he swallowed his pride, and he went on tour with E-rock instead. In september 2011, they started writing new songs at Mark's house, and everyone seemed happy with the output. In 2012, they had a pretty good run, and in the summer, Stapp asked Mark once again about Creed V and Mark's plans for the next year. Once again, Mark chose AB over Creed, and I guess that's when Stapp lost it and said what he had to say. He was ready to record a new album at two occasions, and each time, Mark basically told him he wanted to record an album with "his other band".

I'm not saying Stapp is a saint, but I can understand why he was furious and frustrated with the situation.

[JaredWard]

Scott was just misinformed & I'm sure AB wasn't even on his mind during the Creed reunion. No doubt he thought it was going to be full time again like Ryan mentioned. On Creed V.. I know that they were going back & forth on a producer and that slowed the process down a lot. That, the book, maybe some signs of the old Stapp, and other arguments most likely led Mark to scrapping it & doing his solo stuff.

Here's an interview from 2012 where Scott talks about Creed V.. said they had 10 or 11 songs which I'm sure was an exaggeration.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/UrPz8jXBH78[/youtube]

Starts at 13:39. There was another interview with the whole band & they ask about a new album but I can't find it. The guy mentions Mark's solo project to Stapp & he gives it a compliment but you can tell he wasn't happy. lol

[Dolo]

Remember Stapp's book. He was basically saying that in 2010, he was hoping Creed would tour in early 2011, but Mark decided to go record ABIII.

I think you mean that he was saying so in 2009 about a tour which would have happened in 2010, which might have been confirmed by Flip here: http://tunelab.com/2009/10/24/creed-to- ... orld-tour/

[chtimixeur]

Yup, you're right. It was 2009 and not 2010.
@Jared : thnks for that video interview. I don't remember seeing it back then. What he says from 9:00 resonates a lot today.

[Finaldecision]

Yup, you're right. It was 2009 and not 2010.
@Jared : thnks for that video interview. I don't remember seeing it back then. What he says from 9:00 resonates a lot today.

That's true. He knew it could happen again.

[austin.]

He thought it was Creed full time again.

Which is honestly interesting to me. When I looked up some stats for record sales for my earlier post, Full Circle didn't even go Gold. A far cry from even their Greatest Hits CD.

Full Circle, would've been, yet another Number 1 debut had Michael Jackson not died and released an album the same week.


Also, it really feels like a money thing for Tremonti & Co.

Full Circle was sub-par, at best. I don't feel like 110% was put into that album. The money came from touring. There were two opportunities to do another album, and everyone but Stapp chose not to do it. Why? Because they had made the money the needed to make to fund their "smaller" projects. Mark didn't want Creed to get big again, because he prefers his "smaller" projects.

I understand it. I can't say I blame the guys. But, as someone longing for more Creed, it does suck.

[Fish Tacos]

Where it ranks on the charts doesn't really matter too much for me. In a given week the Number 1 slot may have to sell 20k copies or 30k copies, it doesn't really matter as long as it outperforms the competition. The staying power is what's important to cumulative sales.

[Jhenrid]

Full Circle, would've been, yet another Number 1 debut had Michael Jackson not died and released an album the same week.


Also, it really feels like a money thing for Tremonti & Co.

Full Circle was sub-par, at best. I don't feel like 110% was put into that album. The money came from touring. There were two opportunities to do another album, and everyone but Stapp chose not to do it. Why? Because they had made the money the needed to make to fund their "smaller" projects. Mark didn't want Creed to get big again, because he prefers his "smaller" projects.

I understand it. I can't say I blame the guys. But, as someone longing for more Creed, it does suck.

I get what you're saying but I think that you're forgetting a couple of things, first the AB guys planned everything at least a year in advance. Everyone following them knew, us the fans knew that, interviewers that asked knew, everyone that paid attention knew that it was a rotation system. Secondly Stapp was having vocal problems, no one from the band acknowledged it but it they were there. I know he started to get better but that may not have been at a time where they would've be able to record. Then there is also the fact that we don't know for sure when things started to get iffy with Stapp. When you see things going a certain way you're not going to commit yourself to situation that can go bad.