DUST - The Second Part

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Jaded Rescue
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by Jaded Rescue »

I'll tell you straight up that I didn't have to come here for the leak. I was googling for it once or twice a day since last week because I was so excited to hear Tremonti's new music. I'll be buying a physical copy as soon as it's released, and in the meantime I've been telling every single one of my friends how phenomenal this album is going to be.

Piracy is a complicated issue, and it most certainly is not black and white. I understand where the mods are coming from on this one (I used to be one, albeit not super active). At the same time, though, I find it difficult to see how those of us who listened early are hurting the band. They'll still be getting our money for a physical copy (if not multiple copies) and tons of love and support in pushing our friends and families to listen in and buy their own copies. Mark and the band will still get paid from our purchases, as will the people working with Fret12 to promote the album and earn their rent checks. If anything, all our fan excitement can be contagious and will hopefully not only end with us buying the album, but other people getting curious and chipping in as well. So calling out the hardcore fans of this forum for listening in early seems a little ridiculous to me. Fans like us are the reason Tremonti was able to attempt this band in the first place.

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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by nagpo »

Ashlee wrote:I don't speak for Tim, but I'd imagine that his comment about recognizing and recording the names of people who steal from this band isn't about legal action. It's probably about making sure that of the dozens of requests for passes, tickets and guest list requests he gets on the regular, those people aren't included.

If you can't understand how this was an attempt to lessen google searches for a leak of the album, then I can't help you with basic reasoning and logic. This wasn't a micromanagement of the fans. This was a request. I could have denied it. No one shared a link, so there was no liability on the site's part. So when you ask me why I had to comply, my simple answer is that generally, I'm not an asshole.

I hope it goes without saying that if Fret12 asked me to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't. But there's a handful of you who are asking this website to jeopardize it's relationship with this band (ie. jump off a bridge) because you're sweet little heart feels entitled to say whatever you want to say when you want to say it. The mere notion that admins should "stand up for you" is ludicrous. Especially when there is a handful of you who live to bitch and moan and complain every chance you get. By supporting statements like, "Who the fuck do you think you are." and "The fans really owe you nothing and don't exist to bend at your will." shows that you all do a pretty good job of standing up for your damn selves.

I can't name a single band (not saying there aren't any) that released half the album before it was even released. Bothers me that people can't enjoy what they have. And it bothers me that we'll go through all of this shit later again when V is released.
So basically what you're saying is that you did it because you want to save face and retain a special insider relationship at the cost of the posters right at free speech. ("right" I use loosely.)

Do you not see how messed up that is? Do you not realize how condescending you are coming across as?
TTournier wrote:
nagpo wrote:
TTournier wrote:Wait... wait.. What? what stunt?

Ok guys - here it is, once and for all we are going to have it out, roll up your sleeves kidos.

I work for the band and they are like family to me - i was a fan before I got this gig and I in fact have been coming to this board since 2004ish.... I personally take my time to come and update. I often times ask for peoples thoughts and I try to make it a reality because again, at one point it time i was on the other side - I was / am a diehard fan driving states away just to see a gig. I love these guys.

I asked Ashlee to help me control the leak - yes there was a leak, some shit head kid in Canada stole a cd from a record stores back room and uploaded it to a torrent. I have filed out the right papers with the right people and legal action will take place. rest assured - the haulix system is an amazing tool.

I have taken note over the last 24 hours of everyone here who has commented on stolen content from this band, my family. I am not petty, I understand the temptation but I remember everything. Steal from us and you are hurting a very young band that doesn't have a lot of money. This record is the difference of some folk being able to pay rent or not. You can steal it - a lot of people do but then you come to our backyard and throw it in our faces? I am so disappointed, again I get the temptation but to then came here to brag because you couldn't at least have some compassion for the group / dudes that you say you care for so much. I have been telling people to come here and become a part of something - this is a family and we look out for each other... or so i thought.

feel entitled? Why can't you show a little grace? Am I out of line for asking the only fan run site the has a direct relation to the band ( and one that I personally have helped fund ) for some help? If so, shame on me but if not shame on you. Really think about that.

Im around - got something to say, lets hear it. My managers cap is now officially off and I really want someone to make sense of this for me... help me see why calling me by name is ok...

FYI Shinedown uses a label services company to help police leaks - that is a fact. I have worked for them. again, another fact.
Did a single member here or a single one of the posts that were deleted in any way promote or provide ways to obtain the leak?

And then you say you're not petty but at the same time claim you've written our names on some sort of list as if to threaten us. Who the fuck do you think YOU are? You come on to my board - MY family when these very same people are the ones that spend their hard earned money and purchase multiple copies of a single record and keep you employed and then say you've taken note of these people for talking about the music. That's right - the music. From what I understand it, they were doing what fans do on a forum and discussing the music. Not sharing tips on how to pirate. Heck, if I'm wrong correct me but now we have no way to be sure since they've been deleted.

The fans really owe you nothing and don't exist to bend at your will. Pretty much everyone here has already bought the record. Your group has provided a service and we've paid for it. There is nothing beyond that. This was just a discussion that for some reason you felt was threatning.

"help me see why calling me by name is ok... "

What do you mean by this? The admin said it was you who wanted this taken off. And if you didn't want it to be known, you should have said so. What was the reason you didn't want to be known? Didn't want it to blow up like this? Because you knew it was wrong?

Ok -

1. Yes, people in this forum passed around the link - i was send Six (6) screen grabs of people PMing the link thus I asked the mods to please keep an eye on it and keep the chatter down if they could.

2. Who am I? I am Tim, I am the COO of the label and I manage the band - that is who I am, I thought I stated that before but maybe I / you missed it. fair enough but thats who i am.

3. I have to write down everyone who shared our content for 2 reasons - 1. It is by definition my job to do so and 2. A lot of people ask me for favors on this forum - These people will no longer get anything from me. its t hat easy. they are talking about our music that they got while hurting the band. Understandable?

4.I have to turn in a report - this is apart of that.

Calling me by name - read the posts from other people (some of those folks whom i have screen shots of sharing the files), this is also pretty easy to understand. I asked a mod to help be because well - i am running a label, a band and a tour at the moment all in a launch week - I didn't ask for people to start the self entitled trash talking... we all have seen an episode of Behind the Music, do you really think that makes you an expert?

You are correct in one thing, the fans owe me nothing - zero - zip - But in return I owe them nothing.

5. Want info? want the pass to meet the guys? want to watch sound check... after show.. sorry kid, i owe you nothin thus I'm not doing anything to help ya. sorry. Shake my hand one day and put a knife in my back the next - I don't think so.

6. I treat everyone with respect but some folks think they can get whatever they want, well they can't. You are with us or against us unfortunately - if you rip us off, you are against us man. You go into a grocery store and just walk out with a gallon of milk? no? why not? OHH because its stealing.... All I ask people to do was whats right. Morally right.

Folks who buy records from Tremonti are awesome and we treat them like gold - always have but if you think I make one dime off of Tremonti, you my friend are sadly mistaken. My work is mainly gratis because I see whats building and know the value of these boys.

Next?
1. But of those posts that were deleted, not a single one of them provided the leak. Ashlee said so herself. Those posts were deleted for no reason.

2. So because you're COO and manage the band you think that gives you the right to mandate what we can and can not say?

3. You're well within your rights to do this. I don't care about your silly lists.

4. Go ahead and turn in a report. As long as your work doesn't flood onto this website it doesn't bother me.

5. I've done none of those things and never will ask you for it. It only actually hurts your company than anything else the way you are behaving.

6. You treat everyone with respect? You just refered to me as a "kid". And if you respected us you wouldn't have had us censored. I am also asking you and the admins to do what is morally right but it wasn't done.

And this "entitlement" term that's being thrown around...Everyone is entitled to certain rights, but aren't you the ones so entitled thinking you have the right to take away my rights? I understand there is a limit to how far rights can go even in society but there was no line crossed with those specific deleted tweets.

TTournier
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

austin. wrote:Tim. You got no screen grab from me, because I've not downloaded the leak. I will be sitting at bestbuy Friday morning waiting to buy the CD. Can't wait for it.

Not gonna eat your asshole like some, but not gonna hate either.


If you wanna include Johnson city or Nashville inaugural tour rail footage in a future video, that'd be fucking awesome.


Thanks and rock on
Please don't eat my asshole, I wouldn't enjoy that at all.

Thanks for your support man - I have some killer stuff from Johnson city. Next time you come out hit me up first man.

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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

[/quote]

1. But of those posts that were deleted, not a single one of them provided the leak. Ashlee said so herself. Those posts were deleted for no reason. Ok - did you miss where I said I was sent six (6) screen grabs of PM's from this board?

2. So because you're COO and manage the band you think that gives you the right to mandate what we can and can not say? You asked who I was - I told you, its pretty simple

3. You're well within your rights to do this. I don't care about your silly lists. Thank You?

4. Go ahead and turn in a report. As long as your work doesn't flood onto this website it doesn't bother me. I have been welcomed here, I support this site and am the only direct line to the group - whom which the site is named

5. I've done none of those things and never will ask you for it. It only actually hurts your company than anything else the way you are behaving. That is your opinion I guess... my inbox with Pm's from other folks in this forum says other wise.. but hey thats cool

6. You treat everyone with respect? You just refered to me as a "kid". And if you respected us you wouldn't have had us censored. I am also asking you and the admins to do what is morally right but it wasn't done. It was Kido i believe... and you used foul language at me? I asked to help control leaks and be a wet blanket for me since this is our back yard... I helped pay for this site man and its the only site like this we support... its just as much ours as it is yours.

And this "entitlement" term that's being thrown around...Everyone is entitled to certain rights, but aren't you the ones so entitled thinking you have the right to take away my rights? I understand there is a limit to how far rights can go even in society but there was no line crossed with those specific deleted tweets.[/quote] Indeed.. like copyrights.

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Ashlee
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by Ashlee »

Where does the band's right to not have their intellectual property stolen from them come into play? Or is it all about you?

Freedom of speech is the right to speak without censorship or restraint from the government. So, going on and on about your rights doesn't mean what you think it means. We're not the government. Sorry if pointing that out is condescending.
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

Ashlee wrote:Where does the band's right to not have their intellectual property stolen from them come into play? Or is it all about you?

Freedom of speech is the right to speak without censorship or restraint from the government. So, going on and on about your rights doesn't mean what you think it means. We're not the government. Sorry if pointing that out is condescending.

You. Complete. Me.

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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by nagpo »

TTournier wrote:
1. But of those posts that were deleted, not a single one of them provided the leak. Ashlee said so herself. Those posts were deleted for no reason. Ok - did you miss where I said I was sent six (6) screen grabs of PM's from this board?

2. So because you're COO and manage the band you think that gives you the right to mandate what we can and can not say? You asked who I was - I told you, its pretty simple

3. You're well within your rights to do this. I don't care about your silly lists. Thank You?

4. Go ahead and turn in a report. As long as your work doesn't flood onto this website it doesn't bother me. I have been welcomed here, I support this site and am the only direct line to the group - whom which the site is named

5. I've done none of those things and never will ask you for it. It only actually hurts your company than anything else the way you are behaving. That is your opinion I guess... my inbox with Pm's from other folks in this forum says other wise.. but hey thats cool

6. You treat everyone with respect? You just refered to me as a "kid". And if you respected us you wouldn't have had us censored. I am also asking you and the admins to do what is morally right but it wasn't done. It was Kido i believe... and you used foul language at me? I asked to help control leaks and be a wet blanket for me since this is our back yard... I helped pay for this site man and its the only site like this we support... its just as much ours as it is yours.

7. And this "entitlement" term that's being thrown around...Everyone is entitled to certain rights, but aren't you the ones so entitled thinking you have the right to take away my rights? I understand there is a limit to how far rights can go even in society but there was no line crossed with those specific deleted tweets. Indeed.. like copyrights.

1. And I'm referring to those particular posts that were deleted and not some personal messages.

6. You helped pay for this site? Is that why you're allowed so much influence here?

7. What copyright was infringed upon in those deleted posts?
Ashlee wrote: 1. Where does the band's right to not have their intellectual property stolen from them come into play? Or is it all about you?

2.Freedom of speech is the right to speak without censorship or restraint from the government. So, going on and on about your rights doesn't mean what you think it means. We're not the government.

3. Sorry if pointing that out is condescending.
1. What copyright was infringed upon in those deleted posts?

2. So I take it this site has rules it follows until those rules become inconvenient they can be changed on a whim? There is no line that can be crossed when it comes to what is allowed or appropriate? Since this is an internet forum and not a real government rights don't apply? A posters rights goes as far as an admins whims?

3. It's the tenor of your dialogue, the way you're typing that is condescending.

TTournier
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

nagpo wrote:
TTournier wrote:
1. But of those posts that were deleted, not a single one of them provided the leak. Ashlee said so herself. Those posts were deleted for no reason. Ok - did you miss where I said I was sent six (6) screen grabs of PM's from this board?

2. So because you're COO and manage the band you think that gives you the right to mandate what we can and can not say? You asked who I was - I told you, its pretty simple

3. You're well within your rights to do this. I don't care about your silly lists. Thank You?

4. Go ahead and turn in a report. As long as your work doesn't flood onto this website it doesn't bother me. I have been welcomed here, I support this site and am the only direct line to the group - whom which the site is named

5. I've done none of those things and never will ask you for it. It only actually hurts your company than anything else the way you are behaving. That is your opinion I guess... my inbox with Pm's from other folks in this forum says other wise.. but hey thats cool

6. You treat everyone with respect? You just refered to me as a "kid". And if you respected us you wouldn't have had us censored. I am also asking you and the admins to do what is morally right but it wasn't done. It was Kido i believe... and you used foul language at me? I asked to help control leaks and be a wet blanket for me since this is our back yard... I helped pay for this site man and its the only site like this we support... its just as much ours as it is yours.

7. And this "entitlement" term that's being thrown around...Everyone is entitled to certain rights, but aren't you the ones so entitled thinking you have the right to take away my rights? I understand there is a limit to how far rights can go even in society but there was no line crossed with those specific deleted tweets. Indeed.. like copyrights.

1. And I'm referring to those particular posts that were deleted and not some personal messages.
Read what I wrote above

6. You helped pay for this site? Is that why you're allowed so much influence here?
Read what I wrote above - i asked for help
7. What copyright was infringed upon in those deleted posts?
Read what I wrote above
Ashlee wrote: 1. Where does the band's right to not have their intellectual property stolen from them come into play? Or is it all about you?

2.Freedom of speech is the right to speak without censorship or restraint from the government. So, going on and on about your rights doesn't mean what you think it means. We're not the government.

3. Sorry if pointing that out is condescending.
1. What copyright was infringed upon in those deleted posts?
Read what i wrote above

2. So I take it this site has rules it follows until those rules become inconvenient they can be changed on a whim? There is no line that can be crossed when it comes to what is allowed or appropriate? Since this is an internet forum and not a real government rights don't apply? A posters rights goes as far as an admins whims? This is a forum, not your house. Its belongs to the admin and rules don't allow for leaks...

3. It's the tenor of your dialogue, the way you're typing that is condescending.
I leave you with this classic and yet completely appropriate quote

" Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Last edited by TTournier on Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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phatnonphatness
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by phatnonphatness »

^Ironic.

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Ryan
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by Ryan »

Look, we are very, very loose with administrating this site. We very rarely edit posts and step in. Some of these posts act like we're fucking nazi's censoring everything. We're not. There's a lot of freedoms on this site, but the right is always reserved that we can run it how we see fit. So posting things like, "a posters rights goes as far as an admins whims" is pretty ridiculous. You know it's not that way.

We were asked to help control the leak and a small few amount of posts were edited. Most didn't even realize any were missing.
Photobucket cash grab.

TTournier
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

phatnonphatness wrote:^Ironic.
Humor. its ok to laugh at yourself... and others.

Billy Madison is arguably one of the best movies ever and you can quote it in just about any situation.

take it... try it in your everyday life.

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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by nagpo »

Okay. I'm done with the argument. Nothing left to be said, I've made my point.

I'm looking forward to the day I purchase Dust and talk about it with my friends on this site.

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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by Take The Sun »

TTournier wrote:
phatnonphatness wrote:^Ironic.
Humor. its ok to laugh at yourself... and others.

Billy Madison is arguably one of the best movies ever and you can quote it in just about any situation.

take it... try it in your everyday life.
Just want to say that I quote Happy Gilmore almost every day. Hopefully that counts for something! Hahaha
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phatnonphatness
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by phatnonphatness »

The person getting mad over a couple people listening to an album leak telling me to lighten up? The irony never ends...

TTournier
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

Classic.

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Ryan
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by Ryan »

At any rate...Tim is here. What are the odds of my preorder package arriving on release date? Last time with Cauterize I think I finally got it a week later. Which sucked :lol
Photobucket cash grab.

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anguyen92
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by anguyen92 »

Ryan wrote:Look, we are very, very loose with administrating this site. We very rarely edit posts and step in. Some of these posts act like we're fucking nazi's censoring everything. We're not. There's a lot of freedoms on this site, but the right is always reserved that we can run it how we see fit. So posting things like, "a posters rights goes as far as an admins whims" is pretty ridiculous. You know it's not that way.
There's a great amount of fair freedoms in this site. For instance, I've asked Ryan for a good amount of stuff that I cannot thank enough for. He did not need to give it to me, but he gave it to me and nothing I can do other than meeting him up, one on one, one day, can really show my appreciation for what he did for me.

If people think what the mods are doing regarding informing us to keep it quiet about the leaks are unreasonable, they are just doing what I've seen done in other forums. For instance, the Dream Theater Forums that I go to, here is their take regarding discussing leaked info.
2b. With regard to "leaked" material ... [from] Dream Theater and side-projects by the members of Dream Theater, you may not discuss the leaked material whatsoever.
Any discussion of a leak, including discussion of the songs themselves, will be met with an immediate ban until at least release date, if not longer.
In short, DO NOT POST ANYTHING FROM THE NEW ALBUM unless it is a link to an official source (i.e. DT's or Roadrunner's official sites, YouTube pages, etc.--no other sources are acceptable until further notice) that has been allowed by the band and/or the label. (live performances are fine) If you aren't sure whether it is okay to post a link to something, PM a mod or admin and ask first rather than risking the ban.
And this is the forum that I call my second home on the internet (It's obvious what is my first home on the internet). So yeah, I'm still siding on the side of "Let's just calm down, not discuss the leaked songs until the album is officially out in three days. It does not seem like a big deal to me to respect what the label wants regarding that matter."
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by Ashlee »

Nagpo -

1. By reviewing the songs, it was inferred that the poster had heard them. Since the album has yet to be released, said unauthorized reviewer must have acquired the album nefariously. Therefore, obtaining it illegally, therefore, infringing on the bands copyright. And it would be a whole lot of assuming, except now I've seen the PMs of people passing the link back and forth.

2. Seeing proof that the link had been passed back and forth, plus the 12+ years of experience as a member/moderator of this board, indicated that this was going the wrong way fast. So precisely what I assumed was happening was happening, which is a violation of our rules. Which have always been the rules. Perhaps it was violation of rule 2. Respect the band members. - Disregarded when it became apparent that their music was illegally obtained.

3. I type the same way you do. One key stroke at a time. Any "tenor" is inferred by the reader, and does not necessarily match my true intent.

Full Disclosure: Our fundraisers for the website are open to anyone. This community costs money, and none of us have ever made any money off of it. Tim has apparently donated in the past, which I didn't even know about until this evening because I don't handle the sites financials.

So, how many people are still waiting on their replacement coffee table book?
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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by AHart96 »

Holy shit I must've missed a lot these past few days.....hi everyone :wave Good to see ya Tim. Does someone have the popcorn?
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Rock Never Dies

Thanks for the sig Don Harry!

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Re: DUST - The Second Part

Post by TTournier »

Ryan wrote:At any rate...Tim is here. What are the odds of my preorder package arriving on release date? Last time with Cauterize I think I finally got it a week later. Which sucked :lol

Yours shipped today babe, you should be golden.

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