Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

A place for our musicians to talk about equipment, technique, theory, etc.
User avatar
Dolo
On The Rail
Posts: 1898
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:51 pm
Location: Lublin, Poland

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by Dolo »

davidstvz wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:59 am Unfortunately, there's just so much extra stuff that goes into an album. They overdub multiple guitars and add all kinds of flourishes that aren't played live. Then its' all mixed together in such a way that it's impossible to clearly pick out every note. At the end of the day, I think I just need to make a tab sound good. It's nice to be exactly accurate (especially with tuning) but as long as what's coming out of the guitar sounds right and the finger positions don't make it hard to play, then I can rest easy.
Yeah, I know how much goes into an album, I've recorded one myself and currently working on another. I also like to sprinkle some tasty bits further back in the mix for additional layers in the arrangement. What I'm saying is that if you've got a major part like that solo in Lover, there is no justification for skipping that in such a playthrough. On that LickLibrary DVD when he's going through the pre-chorus in Isolation you can clearly hear an overdubbed clean, phasery part but it's never shown or taught in the lesson.

davidstvz
Bought The CDs
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:22 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by davidstvz »

Yes definitely. It would be nice if they could get everything... especially in an officially produced book. That missing part of the Isolation chorus you described is only in the third chorus right? The Hal Leonard book has it at least.

User avatar
Dolo
On The Rail
Posts: 1898
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:51 pm
Location: Lublin, Poland

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by Dolo »

No, I'm taking about the part before each of the mini-solos and the first and the second chorus (0:40, 0:50, 1:43, 1:55). I used to have that tab book on my previous computer. Again, I'm not saying that I can't play it, just that it's not explained on the DVD.

davidstvz
Bought The CDs
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:22 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by davidstvz »

Ok I know the sections you’re talking about. The Hal Leanord AB III tab is pretty insane. They’ve tabbed out 4 guitars in some parts of “All Hope is Gone” with 3 measures per page. They probably have the part you’re talking about. I wonder where they get all those guitars honestly.. can they really hear 4 guitars playing slightly different versions of the same chord?

Jhenrid
Hardcore TABN'er
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by Jhenrid »

So when it comes to the Fortress tab and DVD if memory is serving me correctly the bits that are left out (the lover solo bit) weren't actually intentional and more of accidental oversight. I believe Tim the writing of tab himself so it's a lot for one guy to do and easy to miss things. I think when it was first released some stuff was pointed out for being miss and he was genuinely shocked about the lover bit being missed. Also having asked Tremonti myself at a meet greet the tabs/instructional dvds don't really make a lot so it's hard for them to justify making them hence we really haven't gotten any more.

davidstvz
Bought The CDs
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:22 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by davidstvz »

Jhenrid wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:26 pm So when it comes to the Fortress tab and DVD if memory is serving me correctly the bits that are left out (the lover solo bit) weren't actually intentional and more of accidental oversight. I believe Tim the writing of tab himself so it's a lot for one guy to do and easy to miss things. I think when it was first released some stuff was pointed out for being miss and he was genuinely shocked about the lover bit being missed. Also having asked Tremonti myself at a meet greet the tabs/instructional dvds don't really make a lot so it's hard for them to justify making them hence we really haven't gotten any more.
Yes, Tabbing is hard work, and then Mark and Myles sitting for all those video sessions which someone has to edit. I can see why they stopped. And it's not a surprise if there's a few small errors. It would be great if the band and Tim would support a community effort to accurately tab their work. Step 1 is definitely just getting the tuning right! A clear solo/video performance of each part (but especially very difficult parts) is the only other thing that's really needed. Sometimes the album is just muddy and there aren't any live performances to check. The detailed video isn't really needed most of the time... a good tab plus the album is usually self explanatory. The hardest parts could use a little guidance on exactly how to pick and such, especially the finger picking stuff. I would love to see a little vid on how Myles plays the intro to In the Deep though!

On the subject of tuning, I noticed in the random thread, you said that Mark only plays two songs in standard Open D5 tuning (DADADD) with Alter Bridge (he had a bunch with Creed) and you added that Fortress is at least DADADD a half step down. But according to this thread, Ghost of Days Gone By is also in DADADD (-1). HOWEVER, the Hal Leonard tab book presents that song in DADGAD (-1). Now I'm wonder if we've got the tuning correct. Is GoDGB DADADD or DADGAD?

User avatar
Dolo
On The Rail
Posts: 1898
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:51 pm
Location: Lublin, Poland

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by Dolo »

GoDGB is rather DADADD half step down, there is a tutorial for it on YouTube from Guitar World.




He says 'D5' at 5:15

davidstvz
Bought The CDs
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:22 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by davidstvz »

Ok, it's definitely DADADD (-1) just watching Mark play and trying to play along. I just realized that DADGAD and DADADD are almost the same tuning if you just delete the G string you have DADxAD... so the tab book can still be used sort of, you just need to string shift the 1st and 2nd to 2nd and 3rd and correct a few chords... it's actually kind of funny. If you look at the book, there is a ton of string skipping and a bunch of chords with muted X's on the G string. You'd think that would have been a clue to use DADADD... it's not like Mark has never used it before. In fact, the book correctly uses it for Life Goes On. Thanks for digging up that video.

That's 2 for TABN 0 for Hal Leonard.

I just went through the rest of the book and noted the other differences. The book has "Show Me a Sign" in Double Drop D (-1) for guitars 1-5 and a guitar 6 in Drop D (-1). TABN has Drop D (-1) for all guitars. For Zero they have a "Guitar 8" in standard (-3) but most of it matches the TABN tuning of Drop D (-1). And as previously discussed, they have Words Darker in DGDGAD (-1) with a guitar 6 in Standard (-1) while TABN has Open Gm (-1) for Mark and Drop D (-1) for Myles. I'm not expecting the book to be right. Clearly they were just guessing... a bad idea for Alter Bridge tunings.

User avatar
maximzub
TABN.com Citizen
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:57 am
Contact:

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by maximzub »

It's not like the songs have to be played in exactly the original tunings. For example, Mark's parts in Words Darker Than Their Wings are playable in Drop C#.

davidstvz
Bought The CDs
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:22 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by davidstvz »

maximzub wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:25 pm It's not like the songs have to be played in exactly the original tunings. For example, Mark's parts in Words Darker Than Their Wings are playable in Drop C#.
This is the master tuning list thread. I think an official tab book ought to be in the tuning the band used and as much as possible get the rhythm, pitch and string choices to match what the band played. Sometimes it matters a lot too. For example, in Words Darker Than Their Wings, if you want to play the intro properly on a twelve string guitar, accurate string selection is essential since the highest two strings lack octave doublings.

Speaking of that song, I just looked at the live footage for the first time and unless they changed from the album tuning, it's not in Open Gm (-1) as our master list here says. In fact, I can't even come up with a reasonable way to play the opening riff in that tuning. Upon closer inspection, the official tab book's tuning (Open Gsus2 down a half step) seems accurate. It's the same as Open Gm except with the 2nd string dropped an additional half step to G# from A. If anyone wants to continue pushing the idea that it's in Open Gm, they should come up with a reasonable tab for that tuning first.

I fully support the idea of tabbing songs in tunings other than the what the band used, especially if the official tuning is extremely non-standard. In my In the Deep tab I included a transcription that combines the lead and rhythm part using Drop B (-3). And in my Indoctrination tab, I included a Drop B (-1) transcription. And that's because you can't even reasonably tune most guitars down to G# standard or A# standard without literally changing the strings.

Kreuger
White Knuckled
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:33 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by Kreuger »

davidstvz wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:59 am I can see why lessons and tabs may be incomplete. These things can't be huge money makers and they need to save somehow. As someone who makes tabs for free, I can opt to spend my time obsessing over details, but if I was doing it for money corners would be cut
That seems backwards to me dude. If youre getting paid, I would expect the best tab possible.
Scott Stapp:
28th March, 2014 at The Opera House in Toronto

davidstvz
Bought The CDs
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:22 am

Re: Alter Bridge/Creed/Mark Tremonti Tuning Master List

Post by davidstvz »

I take it back. If I was doing it for money corners would not be cut... and then I'd realize that I'm not getting paid nearly enough for the time I'm spending and would quit!

As a novice player and customer, I expected perfect quality with tab books (didn't realize how difficult that is to achieve), but if you put yourself in the shoes of the business paying the tabber, and the tabber working on the tabs, the goal is to spend as little money and time as possible and churn out tab books that are good enough to sell without offending most customers. When I think of it this way, it's amazing the books have the quality they do have. The people who survive in the professional tabbing industry must be very talented and hardworking.

Post Reply