The Stormlight Archive Mafia - Life Before Death - The CHAOS of Night 3

[Inconquerable]

If nobody counter claims, I'm not sure I'm willing to vote for Summer. I think she's suspicious, and I know it could be a mafia trap to find our leader, but it's our most important role. We can't just casually vote her out, if nobody else speaks up?

The Dissident - I think I believe him. The only way this doesn't work if the mafia didn't offer anybody a spot last night, like Incon said. For a player like The Dissident, laying low is a way easier (and I think better) mafia move. I'm not saying I trust him 100%, but he goes up my list.

I see your point on Summer, which is why I wanted to un-voted her last night. But the claim itself seemed really... odd to me? And then this post below...

Aww Timo, no worries if you guys kill me off, I might be important in the books, but here i just get to make a tyrannical kill vote, and clearly I don’t know who to vote for so no huge townie loss if it comes to that!

People keep questioning Micky which is good, because I frankly don’t see it... at least not yet. Anxious to see how today unfolds and possibly rescind my vote. Also, where has Cam been?

It set off red flags for me too. And that she doesn't seem to want to talk it out with me, it just rubs me the wrong way. And she subtly tries to divert the attention onto Cam in that post, which is less than ideal. That said, if she is telling the truth, I wouldn't want Dalinar out of the game either.

Ok, how do we feel about Silver? I don't agree with her points on Lotha, but that's because I know how Lotha plays. She's doesn't have the experience we have. For the rest I think she's done a pretty good reading on everybody.

I personally prefer voting for Micky.

I agree, her reads list was actually really solid for the most part, though I did disagree on her Lotha take, and don't see how Lotha and Summer could be a team at this point, unless Lotha's vote was theatre and she didn't think it would catch on but... right now I don't see that. I don't remember exactly but Summer wasn't high enough on anybody's lists (I should make a spreadsheet to make this easier to remember) for mafia to pull something like that. Micky would be my next in line after Summer. I agree with Lotha that we don't really have anything super concrete, and it is just a tone read, but I don't know if him feeling like classic Micky is enough to keep him around, especially with people moving up in my list and claiming roles.

I also think that if she's looking to start a bandwagon... Lotha is a dumb person to pick? Like, nobody has her low, nobody's jumping on that. Having Summer there could be more in that vein as people were beginning to vote for her, but they were also beginning to vote for her for a reason. My thoughts on Silver are still that I'm wary of her, but that's mainly through past games and inactivity, rather than anything in particular she's posted. I'm still not willing to go there yet.

With Micky, I'm not convinced by what he's giving us, it feels like someone second guessing what they're writing. Take his view on my post above - I understand why on its own someone might think it a little odd, and it echoed what initially worried you, but I've given a fairly thorough explanation of it since and we've got some information out of it that the mafia would've known already, which now gives us a potential avenue to clear Diss or find a mafia.

I agree with this, I certainly couldn't have gotten there on a Lotha vote today. Do you think she was pulling a the move Summer pulled? "Lotha is more suspicious to me, but I'll vote Summer because it feels more likely" type of thing? Like she moved up in my reads after posting her thoughts, but I'm not sold on her yet, she's probably like... mid-neutral below Dissident after his claim? My reads list is basically a mess in the middle at this point. Anyway, I'm in the same boat, I don't think she would be my choice today.

I agree with the Micky stuff too. I do wonder if he sees in that specific quote what I see in you often (being concerned with how you come across in your posts), but I don't see that as alignment indicative for you (I've seen you do that as town and mafia), and I certainly wouldn't vote for you based on that. Especially not in this game. He didn't say that, it seems like his suspicion on you is how you make him second guess himself, which is... odd?

I think basically I need to rework the ordering of my list as well. I'll start there and move forward. Summer has left a bad taste in my mouth, but if she's being truthful about her role, I don't want Dalinar out of the game. Micky has been unconvincing and any sort of "clearing" I'm doing on him is a tone thing, which isn't really the best reason to clear somebody. For now I believe Dissident, Julianna shot up to the top of my neutral reads, Silver moved up some as well. I need to hear from Cam today because he's trending downwards just by virtue of others moving up.

[zazisaspaz]

Wait did I miss a post? @Inky, what would you like to talk out? That I’m Dalinar or that I don’t have any strong mafia leads so I’m purely guessing Timo?
(Then I brought up quiet Cameron, because usually quiet Cameron is a Cameron trying to hide something for better or for worse)

[Inconquerable]

Wait did I miss a post? @Inky, what would you like to talk out? That I’m Dalinar or that I don’t have any strong mafia leads so I’m purely guessing Timo?
(Then I brought up quiet Cameron, because usually quiet Cameron is a Cameron trying to hide something for better or for worse)

All good! It was THIS one but you've pretty much answered it for me here. I agree though that we need something from Cam today. I do like that you're not automatically considering the worst with him being quiet too.

[Lotha]

So a train of thought I just had:

In my reads list I said that I was thinking perhaps a player like Cam would be likely to get an invite from the mafia because of two reasons: first, he's a strong player; second, he didn't draw much attention to himself on day 1 so he'd be an ideal pick.

If we're trusting Dissident's claim that he received an invite then we can conclude the mafias followed the same logic: look for a good player who hasn't drawn much attention to themselves (Dissident certainly hasn't, he's posted just enough to avoid much suspicion, etc.)

But what does that tell us? Why would maf skip Cam in that case, since he fits the description but the rest of the players tend to believe him and/or can't read him, perhaps more than the Dissident?

Well. That tells us that Cam might already be mafia.

[Micky]

So, for some reason, I'm being suspected, but that's fine.

Lotha asked me for a role claim, so I'm giving one.

I'm Shallan.

As far as my suspicions of Ubik, there's nothign concrete, as you all have said. I'm actually complimenting Ubik. Every game he phrases his posts in a way that make me go "oh wait, good idea". I thought asking for someone to come forward with an offer from mafia was a bit strange because it may sentence that person to death. Dissident eventually stepped up and claimed that.

Ubik, you also say my posts are second guessing myself, but I literally openly admitted that IN that post

I have been really busy with work and caring for my mom, so I didn't really get a chance to read in depth most of the thread, I skim through it when I have 10 minutes or so and try to come up with something that I can post without looking like either a moron or suspicious and I always feel like I wind up with the former.

I'm still pretty set on Silver as of now, but she may move up on my list depending on her actions today.

I will try to get on again thorughout the day, but I am working a 12 hour shift and then caring for my mom(who lives an hour and a half away), so I may not get the opportunity to post later on in the day.

EDIT: I’m also suspicious of anyone and everyone who didn’t wish me a happy birthday

[zazisaspaz]

Wait did I miss a post? @Inky, what would you like to talk out? That I’m Dalinar or that I don’t have any strong mafia leads so I’m purely guessing Timo?
(Then I brought up quiet Cameron, because usually quiet Cameron is a Cameron trying to hide something for better or for worse)

All good! It was THIS one but you've pretty much answered it for me here. I agree though that we need something from Cam today. I do like that you're not automatically considering the worst with him being quiet too.

Okey dokey!

Ya know what, based on everything since my vote yesterday and what Lotha has mentioned above, I’m going to continue being a reckless mafia player and officially rescind my vote for now. No sense in having that extra pressure out there when a lot of new information is being brought to light.

Thanks for the info, Micky!

[Inconquerable]

So, for some reason, I'm being suspected, but that's fine.

Lotha asked me for a role claim, so I'm giving one.

I'm Shallan.

As far as my suspicions of Ubik, there's nothign concrete, as you all have said. I'm actually complimenting Ubik. Every game he phrases his posts in a way that make me go "oh wait, good idea". I thought asking for someone to come forward with an offer from mafia was a bit strange because it may sentence that person to death. Dissident eventually stepped up and claimed that.

Ubik, you also say my posts are second guessing myself, but I literally openly admitted that IN that post

I have been really busy with work and caring for my mom, so I didn't really get a chance to read in depth most of the thread, I skim through it when I have 10 minutes or so and try to come up with something that I can post without looking like either a moron or suspicious and I always feel like I wind up with the former.

I'm still pretty set on Silver as of now, but she may move up on my list depending on her actions today.

I will try to get on again thorughout the day, but I am working a 12 hour shift and then caring for my mom(who lives an hour and a half away), so I may not get the opportunity to post later on in the day.

Uuuggghhhhh I thought I had my list where I liked it, now I have to change it again.

Ok, let's work THIS out now. Did you use your illusion on anybody last night? If you did, who did you use it on?

For everybody else... what do you think here? I'm still getting like... classic Micky tone out of this, but at some point, we can't just take all claims at face value right? If we just instantly town clear everybody because they claim a role, we're going to be left with nobody as mafia (wait... Andy?!). I guess... wait to see if a counterclaim comes in? I really don't know at this point.

EDIT: And all my best to you and your mom. <3

[Ubik]

So, for some reason, I'm being suspected, but that's fine.

Lotha asked me for a role claim, so I'm giving one.

I'm Shallan.

As far as my suspicions of Ubik, there's nothign concrete, as you all have said. I'm actually complimenting Ubik. Every game he phrases his posts in a way that make me go "oh wait, good idea". I thought asking for someone to come forward with an offer from mafia was a bit strange because it may sentence that person to death. Dissident eventually stepped up and claimed that.

Ubik, you also say my posts are second guessing myself, but I literally openly admitted that IN that post

I have been really busy with work and caring for my mom, so I didn't really get a chance to read in depth most of the thread, I skim through it when I have 10 minutes or so and try to come up with something that I can post without looking like either a moron or suspicious and I always feel like I wind up with the former.

I'm still pretty set on Silver as of now, but she may move up on my list depending on her actions today.

I will try to get on again thorughout the day, but I am working a 12 hour shift and then caring for my mom(who lives an hour and a half away), so I may not get the opportunity to post later on in the day.

EDIT: I’m also suspicious of anyone and everyone who didn’t wish me a happy birthday

Thanks for this Micky, I appreciate you taking the time on it and that you've got a lot going on. I hope everything's okay. And happy birthday! Legit didn't see.

With regards to your claim, Shallan is a role that's kind of confused me since I read the roles as it doesn't seem to do anything useful for the town, and if I'd been that role I'd probably not have used it. Did you use the role last night, or did you perform no action?

Also, just something I'm wary of for everyone - if Micky is lying and there's a real Shallan out there, for now I'd encourage you not to counter claim. The mafia might be doctor hunting and want roles to be counter claimed to narrow their targets, and this goes for potential counters on Summer, too.

My vote remains.

[zazthespaz]

Good morning! Should be a little more active today! So based on my skimming over the past couple of pages, it seems that we have 2 role claims. I think it’d be important for others to counter claim those roles if they are in fact those roles. There are a lot of arguments I need to re-read, but if nobody counter claims a role, I might side with either Micky or Summer on their vote since they’re likely to be townies and it makes sense to side with them. (Again, need to re-read a lot so if I see an argument that makes sense or gives decent info, I might come up with a new theory. Essentially, this post is to say I’m here and will be more active today so don’t write me off yet please!)

[Timotheus]

1. Lotha: She suspects me, so it feels kinda weird to put her on top, but I get where she was coming from, and we kinda came to an understanding. Working with her is going to be difficult, because she suspects me, but from all players I feel she's the most genuine.

2. Inconquerable: I still feel the same about her. She asks the right questions and seems very townie. And as long as she's not the one who comes up who to vote for, I'm fine with working together with her.

3. Ubik: he's gone up on my list, because zaz has been very quiet. The suspicion is still kind of there. I find it kind of suspicious that the guy he proposes to lynch is the guy I put on the bottom of my previous list, but that's mostly me having trust issues. We seem to be agreeing a lot, so I feel a bit more confident about him. Or at least about working together with him.

4. The Dissident: Love how he's like: "didn't read last page, but I received an offer last night". This also wasn't his first post on day two. As long as there's no counter-claim, I feel like we have to trust him. The idea that the mafia didn't offer anybody an offer on day one, is hard for me to believe. They've got to take every chance they have because if Odium gets killed or lynched it's not -1 but possibly -2 mafias.

5. Summer: Kind of the same story. She's been acting very weird. Definitely not like somebody who's got a 'leader' role. But as long as there's no counter-claim, we can't lynch her. All her latest posts seem to be constructed to feel sympathy for her. This and this are examples of that.

6. Julianna: Also asks great questions, does the effort of making lists. I agree with her list, but then again, her list is pretty save. She might as wel be on the 4th place, but The Dissident and Summer both made huge townie claims, so I put them before Julianna.

7. zaz: Has been very quiet. And I thought it was really weird that he jumped on Summer's argument about why she thought I was suspicious. That happened here. This was when Lotha and Summer were both voting for me, so it felt very bandwagon-ish. Summer afterwards admitted it was a bad argument and when Lotha withdrew her vote, he never touched the subject again.

8. Silver: Last game she was mafia, and I don't remember her making lists like the did on page 10. For the rest she hasn't posted a lot, so there's just not that much information, to start trusting her. I put her before Micky, because I feel like she's been a lot more transparent. Putting Lotha at the bottom was pretty ballsy.

9. Micky. I get that he's busy, I fully appreciate that. On day one he just wasn't transparent, and I think a lot of that continued on day two. I appreciate he made that list, but for a lot of people (eg. Summer and zaz), it wasn't really a real opinion. It was kind of a statement to fill up space in that list.

Edit: Well, I just read he claimed Shallan. I'm not gonna change the order of my list based on that information. Consider this ranking on pre-claim. I'm not sure I fully agree with Ubik that a counter claim shouldn't happen, but I guess we'll be talking about that for the rest of the day.

[Lotha]

Shallan should definitely counter-claim. As you said, it's not really a vital role, and it doesn't really out the doctor - still a lot of potential targets for that. Ubik, I don't like your thought process here

[zazisaspaz]

@Timo, I don’t want sympathy, I just think it’s annoying how people can be like “oh my gosh she’s acting so weird for saying she doesn’t have any good reads on anyone” which is literally the whole point of the game. And to that point, if people do vote me off, I don’t want them to feel bad about it. Haha it’s definitely more sympathy for others than myself the way I see it.
Also, Cameron said he wanted to look more into one of my reasons for voting for you... how on earth is that him agreeing with me or jumping on a bandwagon? Now I’m kinda wondering if I rescinded my vote for you too soon...

[zazisaspaz]

Shallan should definitely counter-claim. As you said, it's not really a vital role, and it doesn't really out the doctor - still a lot of potential targets for that. Ubik, I don't like your thought process here

I agree it’s not necessarily the most vital, but it could protect the cop or the doctor from being discovered by mafia. Just in case anyone else was confused by this role, I figured I would share that tidbit

[Ubik]

I didn't say it outs the doctor, I said it narrows the number of people that it could be. Fake claiming Shallan would be smart BECAUSE it's a less important role, that someone might be less bothered about counterclaiming. The mafia then have one role confirmed that they don't care about, so any other kill will be likelier to be a good one.

But okay, full disclosure here as we're down to below 12 hours and I think we've seen a decent amount of posts from people on the state of play. I was hoping to see more votes to more firmly establish who could be working together, but there we go. My worry on the claiming front is because I've been preparing to claim myself, and I'd worked out the numbers after the Summer claim and it was becoming an easier guess for the mafia to make, particularly if I added myself to the mix. But I don't want to push my luck too far, so let's get down to the real stuff. My claim here can negate the need for any further claims.

I'm Wit, I investigated Micky last night, and he's the mafia Nale. This is a particularly important mafia for us to get now, because Dalinar has potentially claimed. If he doesn't die before day 3, the mafia (assuming Summer isn't among them) could kill Dalinar overnight and get a free kill from their vigilante. Me claiming now should at least guarantee that one way or the other, Nale gets killed. Either by the town, or a vigilante.

If Summer is Dalinar, a way to prove this would be to use the immediate kill on Micky. I know she might not have seen enough evidence yet, but hopefully my claiming would push her in that direction.

[Andy92]

Day 2 vote tally:

1. Summer votes for Timo
2. Lotha votes for Silver
3. Inc votes for Summer
4. Ubik votes for Micky

To clarify the Dalinar role since it’s being brought up, Dalinar decides the day vote if they use their ability. They send this vote to me via PM and it will take the place of the majority vote tonight at 11:00 (or at the end of any day phase that it is used.)

Nale’s vote works the same way, only for the side of the mafia. If they both use their votes on the same day phase, the votes will cancel each other out at the end of the day phase at 11:00, and the majority vote from the day phase will be the kill target (or no one will die if a majority is not reached).

[Inconquerable]

I didn't say it outs the doctor, I said it narrows the number of people that it could be. Fake claiming Shallan would be smart BECAUSE it's a less important role, that someone might be less bothered about counterclaiming. The mafia then have one role confirmed that they don't care about, so any other kill will be likelier to be a good one.

But okay, full disclosure here as we're down to below 12 hours and I think we've seen a decent amount of posts from people on the state of play. I was hoping to see more votes to more firmly establish who could be working together, but there we go. My worry on the claiming front is because I've been preparing to claim myself, and I'd worked out the numbers after the Summer claim and it was becoming an easier guess for the mafia to make, particularly if I added myself to the mix. But I don't want to push my luck too far, so let's get down to the real stuff. My claim here can negate the need for any further claims.

I'm Wit, I investigated Micky last night, and he's the mafia Nale. This is a particularly important mafia for us to get now, because Dalinar has potentially claimed. If he doesn't die before day 3, the mafia (assuming Summer isn't among them) could kill Dalinar overnight and get a free kill from their vigilante. Me claiming now should at least guarantee that one way or the other, Nale gets killed. Either by the town, or a vigilante.

If Summer is Dalinar, a way to prove this would be to use the immediate kill on Micky. I know she might not have seen enough evidence yet, but hopefully my claiming would push her in that direction.

Going to respond to others in a bit, but this confirms what I've been thinking for a while about your role.

DEADLINE VOTE: MICKY

Can I ask why you investigated Micky last night? I trust you, I guess I'm just curious why Micky.

[Timotheus]

[Ubik]
Ok, let's see if we get a counter-claim, but yea... That's huge. Also, a really important mafia to get. Also explains why you didn't want the real Shallan to out him or herself, I guess.

I'm going to go ahead and:

DEADLINE VOTE: MICKY

[Summer]
"Bandwagon-ish". The potential was there to jump on a bandwagon. I had two votes against me, and was looking pretty bad. It's just something that felt weird at the moment, considering it was not a very strong argument, as you agreed(first one was just a joke argument, last one was not an argument against me, so yes, argument).

[Ubik]

I didn't say it outs the doctor, I said it narrows the number of people that it could be. Fake claiming Shallan would be smart BECAUSE it's a less important role, that someone might be less bothered about counterclaiming. The mafia then have one role confirmed that they don't care about, so any other kill will be likelier to be a good one.

But okay, full disclosure here as we're down to below 12 hours and I think we've seen a decent amount of posts from people on the state of play. I was hoping to see more votes to more firmly establish who could be working together, but there we go. My worry on the claiming front is because I've been preparing to claim myself, and I'd worked out the numbers after the Summer claim and it was becoming an easier guess for the mafia to make, particularly if I added myself to the mix. But I don't want to push my luck too far, so let's get down to the real stuff. My claim here can negate the need for any further claims.

I'm Wit, I investigated Micky last night, and he's the mafia Nale. This is a particularly important mafia for us to get now, because Dalinar has potentially claimed. If he doesn't die before day 3, the mafia (assuming Summer isn't among them) could kill Dalinar overnight and get a free kill from their vigilante. Me claiming now should at least guarantee that one way or the other, Nale gets killed. Either by the town, or a vigilante.

If Summer is Dalinar, a way to prove this would be to use the immediate kill on Micky. I know she might not have seen enough evidence yet, but hopefully my claiming would push her in that direction.

Going to respond to others in a bit, but this confirms what I've been thinking for a while about your role.

DEADLINE VOTE: MICKY

Can I ask why you investigated Micky last night? I trust you, I guess I'm just curious why Micky.

Honestly? Had a feeling it would come up town and that the mafia would try to push on him as a miss-kill today. I'm also aware of the fact that sometimes his busy-ness can work against him with how he's perceived, and wanted something solid on him.

Also - with Andy's clarification the Summer idea can still work, we'll just need to have a majority of deadline votes as well. @Andy, I'm assuming this works like the last game, where if the Dalinar vote is used, it's listed in the final vote tally? And just to double confirm - Dalinar doesn't need to actively vote in order to stop Nale's immediate kill, it's automatically applied? Is there any difference in how this would look at the end of the day? Sorry for the questions, just affects how this would work.

[zazisaspaz]

WHAT EXCITEMENT!!!!
Aight, well no need to use my little tyrannical vote here then. Gonna trust Ubey here and say:
Deadline Vote: Micky

[Andy92]

Day 2 vote tally:

1. Summer votes for Micky
2. Lotha votes for Silver
3. Inc votes for Micky
4. Ubik votes for Micky
5. Timo votes for Micky

@Ubik Yes basically Dalinar’s vote decides the day kill and is done via PM. If Nale does nothing, this kill will happen.

If Nale chooses a day kill target and Dalinar does nothing, Dalinar will automatically block Nale’s kill without having to do anything. Majority day vote still determines the kill.

If Nale and Dalinar both choose a kill target, Dalinar will just block Nale instead and the majority vote kill will go through.