You Win Or You Die - Game Of Thrones Mafia

[Inconquerable]

Okay, interesting. To sum up the three possibilities I can see:

1. Zaz was jailed by Ramsay. This seems a straightforward way to neutralise him if he's the doctor, without committing to a kill.
2. Zaz was jailed by the High Sparrow. This is dependent on the reading of the doctor's role - it says they may target ANOTHER player, which I presume means they can't protect themselves. If this is the case, and the Sparrow noticed this, they would've thought that the outed doctor had a high chance of being targeted without any protection. They had 7 other choices to jail who could conceivably be targeted, so they thought protecting the claimed role with a higher chance for being targeting was the best option.
3. Zaz is lying and wasn't jailed, and is using this as an excuse as to why he didn't die despite claiming.

At the end of day 1 I couldn't see why zaz would've brought attention to himself as he did if he was mafia, and this course of events is kinda why. But it could be a play to get that kind of thought process going, and it could be an attempt to tempt the real doctor out in a counterclaim, with the jail being a useful excuse. That said, I'm also reconsidering Andy. The "outing" of zaz that I thought made little sense if he was town could've been a provocation. It would mean that targeting zaz in a night kill would've drawn needless attention, but if they had a jailer, they'd have been able to make his role powerless anyway. That suspicion may fall on zaz for surviving is a decent reason, and unless he's killed or searched by the cop we won't know for sure one way or the other. Then again, Andy also drew attention to Ramsay rather than High Sparrow. So long story short I'm back to being unconvinced either way.

Inc - I'll give you a full list a little later on. I'd been holding back on a few in case it influenced anything during the night but when I'm off work I'll be able to dive in.

We're on the same page about why Cam drew attention to his hinting at being the doctor. My thoughts on this are that A) he was doctor hunting (as mafia, why not try to out one of the roles we know is in the game?), B) he wanted to create a whole bunch of confusion, and/or C) he wanted to rope somebody into a trap. Notice how he immediately voted for Andy after Andy pointed it out, without having mentioned any suspicions (or anything at all really) prior.

RE: Andy, it is a little strange, but think about it again. Maybe don't answer in the thread, but think about why a player (remove Andy from the situation to avoid bias) might out a claim at a role. Also, look at this from Andy:

If I was mafia I would have just kept quiet and killed you tonight. I was just shocked you doubled town on claiming such a vital role.

Putting "Andy is always mafia" glasses back on, this might be the truest thing he's ever said.

No worries, work comes first! (Unless you're me, in which case, HAHA WORK COMES FIRST?!) Let's keep talking about this though, I had been thinking the same possibilities about Cam doctor hunting so I think, if nothing else, this is helping me see you as more town. Which is great!

[Inconquerable]

EXCEPT! Sorry I thought of this and want this to be dramatic.

How in the world would Cam know that he was jailed?

Dissident has done everything he can to make sure that the only roles we know in the game are a town doctor, town cop, and a mafia night killer. Everything else is completely up in the air and ripe for speculation. He's not even revealing roles upon death, all we know is whether the player was innocent or guilty. Why would Dissident outright tell Cam that he can't protect Lotha because he's been jailed, thus giving away that there's a mafia jailer?

DEADLINE VOTE: ZAZTHESPAZ

@Ubik and Micky thank you for your posts, I'll read and respond to them shortly, just needed to get this idea down.

(So much for getting any work done today)

Hadn't thought of it this was admittedly, but a) if zaz had voted to protect Lotha overnight and she died anyway, it kind of implies he was jailed, no? As his power didn't work. And b) he might've got a text update in his quote topic from Dissident flat out stating he was jailed overnight.

So I like your thinking here, but I'm not sure it's enough one way or the other.

Removed some of the quotes so we don't end up with a huge quote train here.

A) Sure, but we're assuming that there's a mafia jailer, right? If we're assuming that, we could also assume that Gendry is in the game, and that they gifted a role block to another player, and that player used it on Cam. This is obviously a very specific sequence of events, but we can't assume one thing to be true, and not consider other options as well. I do agree that the more likely of the mafia jailer vs. Gendry options is the mafia jailer though.

B) We have no way of confirming that, even if Cam says as much a few posts down from yours. I just find it hard to believe that Dissident is going to such great lengths to not reveal any of the other roles in the game, but told somebody outright that they were jailed. If he did, that's fine, but unless I hear it straight from Dissident, I don't buy it.

I can say this, I did not get an update from Dissident in my QT about any night actions used on me. Obviously this could mean that nobody used any on me (PLEASE DO NOT SAY IF YOU DID OR NOT). But hypothetically, if the cop investigated me last night, Dissident isn't going to tell me that. I would... imagine anyway?

[Andy92]

I read Micky’s points about Timo, and honestly Timo is playing like he always does. I was convinced he was mafia a couple games ago when he played almost exactly the same way, and he was town. He could just be really good at keeping his roles concealed, but for now I don’t really look at him as a threat.

I could go one of two ways with my line of thinking here. My gut tells me Cam is acting pretty suspicious this entire time, but for that to be the case, someone else would have to be the real doctor. He may just be trying to draw that player out. I know the lemon cake reference wasn’t blatant, but in a lobby full of some GoT nerds it wasn’t going to go unnoticed, especially when he kept highlighting it with HEY GUYS I POSTED AN EASTER EGG HINT.

The other option is to ask why Incon is being so up front and taking command the way she is. She could be trying to steer us all a certain way but to be honest, I think she’s just trying to help the other townies like I am. If I had a gut feeling I might suspect Cam/Micky as two teammates, but I don’t know who the real doctor would be in that scenario.

Still looking at you too, Silver.

[Inconquerable]

Micky! Sorry, haven't been avoiding your post I promise. Here we go, going to break it up into sections.

I’m typing this all on my phone so excuse the lack of quotes!

So, I’m pretty suspicious of Timo. On top of the fact that he’s my creepy uncle, he’s been a bit too friendly and “go with the flow” this game.

I don’t know how to describe it before but he agreed with inconq’s reasons about Cam(I think it was Cam and I am too lazy to go back and check)

He also mentioned math early on which is just upsetting

Ok a case on Timo. You're not alone on your suspicions, Summer also mentioned being suspicious of him. I do agree that he was going with the flow early. For me though, when he opened up a bit later on about some of his feelings, I felt like he was being genuine? THIS was the post that bumped him up a fair bit, though not out of my neutral category, in my rankings. I don't agree with all of his takes, but I don't think all townies should agree on everything if that makes sense? We should have different thoughts, only mafia knows for sure who's who, so there should be differences of opinion. Ok next chunk.

On page 4, he says “more votes to over-analyze”, but never actually explains how he is over analyzing. He then quickly changes the subject to asking about hearing a joke.

He also on page 4, says “the only thing I’ve really noticed so far is that incon is playing a super open first round. Everybody else is textbook themselves, lol”

I clearly wasn’t acting my normal self first round, but you haven’t really indicated who you are leaning towards. It’s more so you saying “because of last game so and so has me reluctant.”

I think the first page four quote can be categorized under fluff? I do agree that you weren't your usual self, maybe he can touch on this later on. I think you only had posted once by this stage in the game though and hadn't yet reacted to my vote (which was the more alarming post you made in my book).

On page 5, you outright say “I agree with your reasoning. But last game I played I thought summer and zaz were townies early in the game, because they were saying the right thing and their thoughts aligned with my thoughts. They ended up being mafia, and it gave me such a tunnel vision for 3/4th of the game that it almost broke me, so I’m a bit more reluctant this time.”

You then follow up with a “Lol yea, let’s spam The Dissident’s feed with random thoughts.”

The only post of yours that hasn’t seemed suspicious to me is on page 6, where you say you never know how to read me in this game. Well read this, buddy old pal, I’m onto you!

Not much to say here. What is your take on the quotes in this section? Particularly the first one, because again I think the Dissident line was just jokey fluff.

However, I’m also suspicious of Cam, so I have to wonder, are you partners? You say in that same post on page 6, “no reason to distrust him yet, but he’s kind of saying nothing at the same time.”

I think Cam is playing a bit of a vague game as well, although I’ve only had a chance to read the whole thread once. But normally you both make more fleshed out posts. Not necessarily lengthy, but the ideas are more fleshed out.

Is there anything that has happened since day six that make you think that Timo and Cam could be partners? I generally agreed with Timo's take on Cam since Cam hadn't given us much at that point, which aligns with your "vague game" take. Things have certainly changed since then though!

You then on page 7, make another comment that is just kind of there. You say “that’s such a Sansa thing to do. If this results in Ned dying, I quit, lol.”

Now, while I agree with you, it’s again a post that’s just kind of there. Not spam, because I love you too much to ever call one of your posts spam, but it’s not vital. It’s just kind of there, more vagueness.

Fluff! I think it's a kinder word than spam.

You chose not to vote for anybody, but I think that’s because you didn’t want to vote and potentially out yourself as guilty. I think Cam could’ve theoretically been voted for, or even Andy. I switched my vote because nothing was getting done anyway, so I figured a no vote is the way to go.

Hm, ok. @DISSIDENT could we possibly get an end of day one vote count? Micky, the reason I ask for the vote count is because I want to follow up with you on this and your thoughts on other players who also didn't vote. I'm pretty sure by the end of the day, only Cam had a vote left on somebody? So if we can get the vote count, I'd like to know your thoughts on other players also not voting.

And again, I appreciate you cooperating with me on un-voting. =)

On page 10, you say Andy is claiming to be jailed, do you know something that we don’t? This comment confused me.

This I like. A lot. I hadn't considered this, it could be too much information as a result of being mafia (thus knowing there's a jailer). I think I could probably anticipate what Timo will say here, but I'll be waiting to see his explanation on this part.

Your posts, while always amazing, because you’re an amazing human being and I’m blessed to call you my friend, are just kind of vague. Most of them one sentence, and usually are a funny comment and not necessarily a oht the game itself or outing anybody.

So with that all said, I have one question for you

You still want to hear a joke, Timo, my man?

Well I’ll tell you a joke, Timo: YOURE GUILTY

This is more in line with the Micky I was expecting to show up to this game. I have to admit, I still have a bad taste in my mouth from your day one play. I know you were busy, but I didn't see the gusto that you usually have when somebody votes for you. But I appreciate you building this case, and hopefully the more we talk about it, eventually I can call you town.

[Inconquerable]

I’ll do a better reply to everything that’s been said later, but Ubik’s option B is what happened. I was told a bag was thrown over my head and I was out in a cell with the option to try and save someone in the event someone else’s night action freed me,

As of right now, Andy, Inconquerable, and possibly Micky are my potential mafia candidates.

Ok so if I land on this being the truth (which we can't confirm or deny, this is all out of game information), can I ask for your reasoning as to why you wanted to protect Lotha? I don't know if this will help me or not with you, but I am curious.

Do you think all three of us could be partners? Could you build a case right now that ties all three of us together? (When I say "right now" in mean in this stage of the game, not literally right this instant. =P)

[Timotheus]

Well, thanks, Incon that helps. Still not at home, so I'm not gonna respond to everything with quotes.

I think a lot of what you said is just me making jokes. But it's not like that's the only think I do. You accuse me of not voting for somebody, and trying to stay in the clear, but that's simply not true. I singled out three people that I suspected (zaz, Silver and you) and was pretty clear about that. I didn't vote because it would've been stupid to vote an innocent out.

About the Andy-zaz-jailor thing. When Andy said what he said, I just interpret it differently. In my head Andy was like: two people were jailed (zaz and a Andy), therefore we're 100% sure Ramsey is in the game.
Right now, we can only guess who jailed zaz.

About zaz, I think he's suspicious. But the fact that he chose Lotha is very interesting. If he is mafia, why pick the player that could him look 200%% more suspicious? Zaz is more clever than that. I'm not fully convinced, but it's weird. I think it's more likely that zaz really is the doc, and really wanted to save Lotha. Why he outed himself on day one is mind-blowing to me though.

That entire situation is weird, and I feel like there's more to it.

[zazthespaz]

Frick. If you guys are going to make me work this hard in this game, you should at least pay me $15/hr. (American)

I could go one of two ways with my line of thinking here. My gut tells me Cam is acting pretty suspicious this entire time, but for that to be the case, someone else would have to be the real doctor. He may just be trying to draw that player out. I know the lemon cake reference wasn’t blatant, but in a lobby full of some GoT nerds it wasn’t going to go unnoticed, especially when he kept highlighting it with HEY GUYS I POSTED AN EASTER EGG HINT.

Re: Easter Egg. I called it out in defense of Timo saying I wasn't saying of value. Having very little to work with, I posted this:

Then there's zaz... He's somewhere in the middle for me. No reason to distrust him yet, but he's kind of saying nothing at the same time.

I know, I don't know what to say though. Nobody is saying anything significant for me to work off of (that I remember). I've dropped a pretty good Easter egg though which may or may not be a good idea to point out...

30 minutes later, Andy straight up calls me out as the doctor. Doesn't say anything referencing he may have found out my Easter Egg, just says, "bam, you're the doctor."

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and not advertise you are claiming to be the doctor, but since you’re doubling down on it.

I was not doubling down on anything at that point, all I said was, "Hey, I've left a hint, go find it."
Lotha validates how hidden my hint was with:

So zaz is supposedly hinting he's Sansa? Where's this Easter Egg I must see it.

Andy then says:

Considering you’ve read the books and I haven’t, I find it hard to believe I caught it and you didn’t.

Lotha replies, then this transpires:

Lol I found one thing but I don't remember whose quote it was, if it's a quote we're talking about.

With a subject line of "Lemony Lemon Cakes" so that if you had in fact missed my Easter Egg (as Lotha, an avid GoT reader and proven innocent person), there was no way you would miss it now.
Lotha confirms how obscure my hint was with this:

OHHHHHHH but he didn't say... ! Well he didn't say it explicitly. But yeah okay the dessert thing.

So, to go back to Andy's comment that I " kept highlighting [my role] with HEY GUYS I POSTED AN EASTER EGG HINT." it's pretty obvious at this point that I did not keep highlighting it, rather Andy was making sure it was obvious to all. (I have all the quotes in order and have removed some quotes within quotes, but nothing beyond that has been edited or left out)

I didn't expect many people to catch onto my Easter Egg (as evidenced by Lotha) but in hindsight, it wasn't the best idea to play this card so early. However, it also doesn't make sense for me to claim this role if it's not mine. It's one of 3 confirmed roles meaning someone can absolutely see me straight away as a liar and as the doctor themselves, choose to not protect me during the night phase meaning that not only do I now have an enemy, I have also lost a decent protection.

So, I think the real question here is why did Andy make such an effort to reveal my role? He stands to gain nothing from it as a townie, in fact, stands to lose from doing so as a townie because if I am killed and also the doctor, he loses a valuable chance of protection. If he's mafia, he and his Canadian friends can set me up to look like the bad guy by preventing me from using my power and slowly killing off my enemies.

"But zaz!" you say, "Lotha was killed last night and she wasn't your enemy! This contradicts what you just said!"
Yes, it does contradict what I just said, if I had any enemies at that point, they'd be Andy, Inconquerable, and Micky since I accused them all of being mafia. Doesn't make sense for mafia members to kill each other in the night phase, so instead, might as well kill a very smart individual who was attempting to foster discussion and remove chaos (Chaos - n. - best friend of the mafia). In fact, I suggested she might be Tyrion

I do know how it goes but I must say that sounds like a very Lannister-like way of thinking. *sips wine*

Aww man. Lotha's Tyrion!? I was really hoping for Andy!

which can be a valuable informational role that could be used to make a strong case in finding out who the mafia was. This is why I chose to protect her in the night phase (@Inconquerable - you asked me why I protected Lotha). I believe the mafia saw my way of thinking about Lotha and eliminated her to remove the threat to their power and rather than eliminate me, chose to jail me instead to a) keep me from using my night action b) use me as a suspect in day 2 to take the heat off of them. This is also an argument against Andy's comment from day 1:

If I was mafia I would have just kept quiet and killed you tonight. I was just shocked you doubled town on claiming such a vital role.

This comment allows him to say, "zaz didn't die night 1 so obviously I'm not mafia." (Weak, I know, but it's something).

I'm going to post this, but may reply to another here in a moment, need to review what's still open for me to discuss, but I think this is enough for you to all work with in the meantime. As it stands:

Deadline Vote: Inconquerable

Which I will address more in my next post.

[zazthespaz]

I’ll do a better reply to everything that’s been said later, but Ubik’s option B is what happened. I was told a bag was thrown over my head and I was out in a cell with the option to try and save someone in the event someone else’s night action freed me,

As of right now, Andy, Inconquerable, and possibly Micky are my potential mafia candidates.

Ok so if I land on this being the truth (which we can't confirm or deny, this is all out of game information), can I ask for your reasoning as to why you wanted to protect Lotha? I don't know if this will help me or not with you, but I am curious.

Do you think all three of us could be partners? Could you build a case right now that ties all three of us together? (When I say "right now" in mean in this stage of the game, not literally right this instant. =P)

I answered the first part of this in my last post, the second I'll address here.
I've made my thoughts on why I'm suspicious of Andy in the last post, his intent on revealing my role is the worst move a townie could make aside from revealing their own role (see Case Study: zazthespaz in Game of Thrones Mafia).
Suspicions of you come from the majority of your posts being focused on me lying about my role:

We're on the same page about why Cam drew attention to his hinting at being the doctor. My thoughts on this are that A) he was doctor hunting (as mafia, why not try to out one of the roles we know is in the game?), B) he wanted to create a whole bunch of confusion, and/or C) he wanted to rope somebody into a trap. Notice how he immediately voted for Andy after Andy pointed it out, without having mentioned any suspicions (or anything at all really) prior.

RE: Andy, it is a little strange, but think about it again. Maybe don't answer in the thread, but think about why a player (remove Andy from the situation to avoid bias) might out a claim at a role. Also, look at this from Andy:

If I was mafia I would have just kept quiet and killed you tonight. I was just shocked you doubled town on claiming such a vital role.

Putting "Andy is always mafia" glasses back on, this might be the truest thing he's ever said.

No worries, work comes first! (Unless you're me, in which case, HAHA WORK COMES FIRST?!) Let's keep talking about this though, I had been thinking the same possibilities about Cam doctor hunting so I think, if nothing else, this is helping me see you as more town. Which is great!

In your lettered list, you don't consider any possibility of me claiming the role outside of me having malicious intent. So anybody reading it will interpret it as "zaz only (accidentally) revealed his role for nefarious reasons." and will therefore have a tainted view of me. You're a smart player, you know things aren't always what they seem and you try to look at all options. I'm assuming you're ignoring the positive options because they don't help your cause. Then, you jump to Andy's defense. I'm obviously suspicious of him so anyone supporting him gets the side eye from me. The fact that I've got a case against you separate from this raises my eyebrows further when paired with your defense of Andy.

As far as Micky, I think he's the rogue of your group. He doesn't have much time for here (i.e. his birthday party which I'm going to be late for because I'm writing this [Sorry Micky!]) so he can lay low and work in the shadows while you and Andy do the heavy lifting in front of everyone. I think his vote for Andy immediately after mine was used to drive a wedge between himself and Inconquerable and Andy. Plus, he had a good excuse for it claiming he was going to vote for Andy because of previous statements based on how the last game went. I'm not ready to cast a vote for him like I am for Andy and Inconquerable, but should anything happen to me, I'd suggest everyone keep an eye on him.

Inconquerable, what's your plan for this night phase and next day phase? I'm curious what your thoughts would be for scenarios where I am and am not Sansa and what your long term plan is.

Regarding your jail comment and no role reveals, it kind of makes sense to tell me that I was put in jail doesn't it? We probably should've done it in previous games - it makes no sense that we're playing these characters but are completely oblivious to the fact that we spent the night in jail and wonder why the next day our actions didn't take hold. (@TheDissident, nice choice - I approve!)

I will say this, if after everything I've said, people are still suspicious of me and aren't sure that someone else is mafia, vote for me. I think at this point, mafia is going to keep me alive to keep the heat off of them, but I also think they will jail me each night so my role is useless. You will see that I am innocent and you should make a full force against/to investigate Andy and Inconquerable.

edit: one last thing and then I'm off for a few hours - keep in mind that by killing me, there will only be 4 townies left. Mafia will kill another townie in night 2, and then it will be 3 v 3 in day 3 unless they are stopped in night 2. Think it through, we've got time before you need to vote.

[Inconquerable]

About the Andy-zaz-jailor thing. When Andy said what he said, I just interpret it differently. In my head Andy was like: two people were jailed (zaz and a Andy), therefore we're 100% sure Ramsey is in the game.
Right now, we can only guess who jailed zaz.

I can... probably accept this. Given your conclusion at the end of the post I see why you're going with the option that Cam was jailed. Andy's post looked like speculation to me, but I can kind of see where you saw a possible claim.

About zaz, I think he's suspicious. But the fact that he chose Lotha is very interesting. If he is mafia, why pick the player that could him look 200%% more suspicious? Zaz is more clever than that. I'm not fully convinced, but it's weird. I think it's more likely that zaz really is the doc, and really wanted to save Lotha. Why he outed himself on day one is mind-blowing to me though.

That entire situation is weird, and I feel like there's more to it.

Can you explain the Lotha bit to me? Why do you think Lotha specifically dying at night vs. anybody else makes Cam look more suspicious? I feel like, given how the day ended, killing me would have implicated him way worse than killing Lotha, who he only mentioned having semi-good vibes about. Smart mafia keeps me around so Cam and I hash this out though... smarter mafia keeps us both because they know it's townie vs. townie and are going to just sit back and watch us vote out a townie?

UNVOTE: ZAZTHESPAZ

[Andy92]

There’s also the possibility Cam, Incon, and I are all 3 townies that got caught in a mess. I’m gonna use Occam’s razor here (that just means the most likely scenario is the one that happened). It’s most likely that Cam is really the doctor and I screwed up by outing him so publicly. In my head I thought the lemon cake thing was obvious, but in hindsight I can see that I just messed up. Ramsay is in this game and jailed Cam to keep him from saving anyone while they targeted someone else to kill.

But there’s still 3 mafia out there, and I tend to think at least 2 of them are under-the-radar players. My highest two suspects currently are Micky and Silver. Summer also hasn’t said much so I haven’t ruled her out either.

I think Ubik and Timo are playing pretty consistent to how they normally would, and Incon does seem to be helpful to townies at large. I think Cam is on the defensive here, not necessary because he’s mafia, but because he’s gotten in a mess with his role being known.

My gut is that we vote out Micky or Silver in this round. Any thoughts on that approach?

[Timotheus]

Home! Going to quickly go through Micky's post. I'm going to ignore the fluff, because I don't know what to add to Incon's reaction to your reaction of those.

I don’t know how to describe it before but he agreed with inconq’s reasons about Cam(I think it was Cam and I am too lazy to go back and check)

I didn't follow Inconquerable. I was the first one who was kinda 'eh' about zaz. She afterwards started agreeing with me. This was before the entire doctor thing happened.

He also on page 4, says “the only thing I’ve really noticed so far is that incon is playing a super open first round. Everybody else is textbook themselves, lol”

I clearly wasn’t acting my normal self first round, but you haven’t really indicated who you are leaning towards. It’s more so you saying “because of last game so and so has me reluctant.”

I did say who I was learning towards: "The rest, I'm not sure of yet. I never know how to read Micky in this game. Haven't played with Silver yet, but she won last game, so I'm not going to underestimate her. Then there's zaz... He's somewhere in the middle for me. No reason to distrust him yet, but he's kind of saying nothing at the same time."

It was day one, and literally nothing had happened yet. I did say how I was feeling about pretty much every player. What more do you want? A random vote that could lead to a townie dead?

On page 5, you outright say “I agree with your reasoning. But last game I played I thought summer and zaz were townies early in the game, because they were saying the right thing and their thoughts aligned with my thoughts. They ended up being mafia, and it gave me such a tunnel vision for 3/4th of the game that it almost broke me, so I’m a bit more reluctant this time.”

You then follow up with a “Lol yea, let’s spam The Dissident’s feed with random thoughts.”

I'm not sure what this argument even means. It was one thing I said and a joke I made that have nothing to do with eachother.

However, I’m also suspicious of Cam, so I have to wonder, are you partners? You say in that same post on page 6, “no reason to distrust him yet, but he’s kind of saying nothing at the same time.”

I think Cam is playing a bit of a vague game as well, although I’ve only had a chance to read the whole thread once. But normally you both make more fleshed out posts. Not necessarily lengthy, but the ideas are more fleshed out.

It was literally day one. Check the purgatory game. I start to get involved when I feel like there's stuff worth talking about. When people have died, and actual ideas can be formed.

You chose not to vote for anybody, but I think that’s because you didn’t want to vote and potentially out yourself as guilty. I think Cam could’ve theoretically been voted for, or even Andy. I switched my vote because nothing was getting done anyway, so I figured a no vote is the way to go.

That's one way of looking at it. Like I pointed out above, I never tried to look good by keeping my suspicions to myself. All I did here was remind people that we didn't have to kill somebody that day. If I was mafia I easily could've added a vote, and bring Andy's count to three.

On page 10, you say Andy is claiming to be jailed, do you know something that we don’t? This comment confused me.

Which I still think made a lot of sense. As I explained above. It just is not clear who saved zaz, and it Andy's "Ramsay's definitely in the game" just really seemed like he implied two people had been taken to prison that night.

Your posts, while always amazing, because you’re an amazing human being and I’m blessed to call you my friend, are just kind of vague. Most of them one sentence, and usually are a funny comment and not necessarily a oht the game itself or outing anybody.

You know I love you to, Micks. I just don't agree with that sentiment

I'm gonna respond to some other posts in another post.

[Inconquerable]

I answered the first part of this in my last post, the second I'll address here.
I've made my thoughts on why I'm suspicious of Andy in the last post, his intent on revealing my role is the worst move a townie could make aside from revealing their own role (see Case Study: zazthespaz in Game of Thrones Mafia).

I can't quote the other post because I'm hungry and seeing the cake is making it worse. But I see your reasons for wanting to protect Lotha. At face value, perfectly valid.

Having said that, I think some of your post is either disingenuous, or you forgot some of my posts from day one. Again removing some old quotes so this isn't a huge post. Inconquerable talks too much.

Suspicions of you come from the majority of your posts being focused on me lying about my role:

In your lettered list, you don't consider any possibility of me claiming the role outside of me having malicious intent. So anybody reading it will interpret it as "zaz only (accidentally) revealed his role for nefarious reasons." and will therefore have a tainted view of me. You're a smart player, you know things aren't always what they seem and you try to look at all options. I'm assuming you're ignoring the positive options because they don't help your cause.

This is what I'm referencing when I say disingenuous or forgot my other posts. The one that you quoted was a direct response to Ubik who had pointed out possible reasons why a potentially mafia you outs themselves on day one. I agreed with his points and expanded on a few. Those weren't the ONLY possible explanations of what was going on. Also, see my posts below from day one:

This is a long one, skip to the bottom section. "I don't full know how to feel about it, I guess I have more points in favour of him being ok based on this alone, but he did contradict himself a bit too which is concerning... If he doesn't die in the night then we question it in day two?"

Still considering options. It's not super direct where I say "if Cam is the doctor, Micky is mafia" or vice versa, but I have been giving explanations outside of you lying.

More questioning, and agreeing with Ubik's points.

I flat out said "I'll keep in mind that it is entirely possible that Cam was jailed."

So today I'm more focused on you because of the first post I linked to. You didn't die over night, that's weird. I am warming up to the idea that you were jailed. I don't like your first post in this phase claiming it, it feels like mafia running into the thread to throw up a defense before the questions start pouring in. The things making me question if I was wrong and that you are the doctor are the following:

1. The possibility that you were jailed and Dissident told you as much. Nobody can confirm this except Dissident [and the jailer but PLEASE DON'T (unless you're mafia and want to give yourself up?! =D)], so it's kind of a non point to me, but it's in the back of my mind.

2. Lotha being the chosen kill instead of one of the two of us. The smartest mafia move last night was to keep us both around because clearly, we were going to have this back and forth right? They're sitting back and (again going under the assumption that you're actually the doctor) watching two townies fight until one of us is voted out, and we end up in a tie game in day three. They're completely safe because when the first of us comes up townie, the rest of the players vote the other and they come up townie, and mafia wins.

Then, you jump to Andy's defense. I'm obviously suspicious of him so anyone supporting him gets the side eye from me. The fact that I've got a case against you separate from this raises my eyebrows further when paired with your defense of Andy.

Do you really think that I jump to Andy's defense if we're partners though? And to be fair, I've also defended Timo in this phase, and probably others along the way. I've outright said who my top townies are multiple times, I don't think I do this if I'm partnered with those people? That would be bad play.

As far as Micky, I think he's the rogue of your group. He doesn't have much time for here (i.e. his birthday party which I'm going to be late for because I'm writing this [Sorry Micky!]) so he can lay low and work in the shadows while you and Andy do the heavy lifting in front of everyone. I think his vote for Andy immediately after mine was used to drive a wedge between himself and Inconquerable and Andy. Plus, he had a good excuse for it claiming he was going to vote for Andy because of previous statements based on how the last game went. I'm not ready to cast a vote for him like I am for Andy and Inconquerable, but should anything happen to me, I'd suggest everyone keep an eye on him.

I'm still largely of the mind that you and Micky cannot be partners after the weird voting in day one. If I can't make a decision on you today, I'll probably go for Micky unless something else happens. Him coming up mafia very likely clears you as town. Him coming up town means you and I have to go through this whole process all over again on day three.

Inconquerable, what's your plan for this night phase and next day phase? I'm curious what your thoughts would be for scenarios where I am and am not Sansa and what your long term plan is.

1. If you are the doctor: I resume my push on Micky. This might be what my plan is for today even, I need to keep thinking about this though.

2. If you're not the doctor: I vote for you and hope others jump on board because you would almost have to be mafia. The only other explanation is that you hinted at being the doctor to save the actual doctor... but....? I don't think so. Problem is, we won't know what your role is until the game is over, so I'm kind of tempted to look at this game in more of an "innocent vs. guilty" way. Which is why I've, thus far, been pushing you.

Regarding your jail comment and no role reveals, it kind of makes sense to tell me that I was put in jail doesn't it? We probably should've done it in previous games - it makes no sense that we're playing these characters but are completely oblivious to the fact that we spent the night in jail and wonder why the next day our actions didn't take hold. (@TheDissident, nice choice - I approve!)

I mean we can have this conversation somewhere else but I would agree to disagree on this. Take the last game for example, AB4 jails Ubik the same night Silver targets him as the Clockmaker. Do I now go and tell Ubik "hey you were jailed!"? I wouldn't, because then he's going to run into the thread and say "HEY I WAS JAILED!" and it causes a big commotion. Kind of like what happened here this morning. This isn't a knock on Dissident at all by the way, it's just not the way I would do things personally.

I will say this, if after everything I've said, people are still suspicious of me and aren't sure that someone else is mafia, vote for me. I think at this point, mafia is going to keep me alive to keep the heat off of them, but I also think they will jail me each night so my role is useless. You will see that I am innocent and you should make a full force against/to investigate Andy and Inconquerable.

edit: one last thing and then I'm off for a few hours - keep in mind that by killing me, there will only be 4 townies left. Mafia will kill another townie in night 2, and then it will be 3 v 3 in day 3 unless they are stopped in night 2. Think it through, we've got time before you need to vote.

Oh this was another point I should have put up top in my reasons for possibly thinking you could be the doctor. Again, smart mafia jails you to prevent you protecting anybody, and picks off townies one by one. But this again assumes that mafia has a jailer at all.

I think I had more to say but this probably covers the big points. When I get home from work I'm going to go through Lotha's posts for hints like I said I would, and I'll go from there. I do hope we can get a few others to weigh in on this though.

[Inconquerable]

There’s also the possibility Cam, Incon, and I are all 3 townies that got caught in a mess. I’m gonna use Occam’s razor here (that just means the most likely scenario is the one that happened). It’s most likely that Cam is really the doctor and I screwed up by outing him so publicly. In my head I thought the lemon cake thing was obvious, but in hindsight I can see that I just messed up. Ramsay is in this game and jailed Cam to keep him from saving anyone while they targeted someone else to kill.

But there’s still 3 mafia out there, and I tend to think at least 2 of them are under-the-radar players. My highest two suspects currently are Micky and Silver. Summer also hasn’t said much so I haven’t ruled her out either.

I think Ubik and Timo are playing pretty consistent to how they normally would, and Incon does seem to be helpful to townies at large. I think Cam is on the defensive here, not necessary because he’s mafia, but because he’s gotten in a mess with his role being known.

My gut is that we vote out Micky or Silver in this round. Any thoughts on that approach?

I could get on board with voting Micky in this round based on his day one play. I'll have to check when I get back home but there was a post of Silver's that I liked enough to keep her neutral. Micky was only out of the mafia category because, like I said, there's no way he and Cam are mafia partners. I keep flipping them back and forth and it's driving me nuts.

I do... still have questions about Ubik... this might just be paranoia because I thought he was the towniest townie to ever townie in Survivor, and I don't get quite the same feelings here? Like he hasn't done anything to make me think "definite mafia" but I'm... nervous about him.

Talk to me about Summer. I have her pretty high in my list. Is it just her being quieter in this game that has you questioning her or is there something else to it?

[Timotheus]

About zaz, I think he's suspicious. But the fact that he chose Lotha is very interesting. If he is mafia, why pick the player that could him look 200%% more suspicious? Zaz is more clever than that. I'm not fully convinced, but it's weird. I think it's more likely that zaz really is the doc, and really wanted to save Lotha. Why he outed himself on day one is mind-blowing to me though.

That entire situation is weird, and I feel like there's more to it.

Can you explain the Lotha bit to me? Why do you think Lotha specifically dying at night vs. anybody else makes Cam look more suspicious? I feel like, given how the day ended, killing me would have implicated him way worse than killing Lotha, who he only mentioned having semi-good vibes about. Smart mafia keeps me around so Cam and I hash this out though... smarter mafia keeps us both because they know it's townie vs. townie and are going to just sit back and watch us vote out a townie?

UNVOTE: ZAZTHESPAZ

I'm not talking about the killing. I'm talking about him claiming he tried to save Lotha. If I were mafia, and I was gonna act like the doctor, I wasn't going to claim I was gonna (but didn't get to) save the person that just died. It's just dumb. The coincidence is too big. It's like when you lose a card game and afterwards check the deck and say something like: "ahhh; that was exactly the card I needed to win". Nobody's going to believe you, if you can't proof it.

Weird metaphor aside, I think if zaz was mafia, he'd be smarter than that, and pick another player, or only mention he got jailed. But if zaz really was a townie, I think he'd never had hinted his role like that, so I'm really conflicted about that entire situation.

Hadn't thought of it this was admittedly, but a) if zaz had voted to protect Lotha overnight and she died anyway, it kind of implies he was jailed, no? As his power didn't work. And b) he might've got a text update in his quote topic from Dissident flat out stating he was jailed overnight.

So I like your thinking here, but I'm not sure it's enough one way or the other.

I’ll do a better reply to everything that’s been said later, but Ubik’s option B is what happened. I was told a bag was thrown over my head and I was out in a cell with the option to try and save someone in the event someone else’s night action freed me

I do think this is weirdly specific, and I think this situation makes sense, but this can only be proven if somebody else gets jailed.

So my thoughts right now:

Inconquerable: Took the role of townie leader. Seems very townie. Could be playing a really clever mafia game, but that could be said about every player I have positive feelings towards, I guess.
Summer: Not too sure how I feel about her. I think she's a townie. Then again, she's suspecting me, but I genuinely think that's just her being wrong.
Ubik: Seems to be playing a pretty regular townie game. Kind of like he was during the Purgatory game, except for the drunk code.
Andy: Somewhere in the middle of the pack for me. Absolutely not sure about him. I'd bet on townie. The zaz-Andy-Sansa situation was weird, but I think if he was mafia, he'd had kept that to himself, as mentioned by Ubik earlier.
Silver: She's been very absent. Which makes it hard to read her. She's at the bottom of my list.
Micky: Also at the bottom. I honestly think his post tried REALLY hard to make me look bad, and it looked like he went through my posts, copying literally everything and trying to find a reason why that specific post was suspicious. A townie also could've done that, I guess. But something about it feels like he tried a bit too hard. I do love him though.
Zaz: No clue anymore. I posted my thoughts of him above. If there was anybody who I thought was more suspicious, I'd try to keep him around one more night, but there's nobody I'm really sure of.

*edit because I messed up a quote

[zazisaspaz]

I feel like I should read all of the last couple pages to play and respond, but I don't really want to hahaha my migraine is finally starting to go away and I don’t want to bring it back. Did some solid skimming though so I think I got the jist of people’s opinions.

I still think Cam is innocent. Timo always makes me suspicious because he always plays a calm and distant game, but now my eye is definitely on Inky. The fact that I am so sure Cameron is innocent makes anyone questioning him suspicious to me. I know that’s kind of silly, but why focus so hard on someone accidentally giving away their vital role? I’m gonna leave that for now because I need to do some more reading, take some meds, and feed horses. But I hope everyone is having a lovely Monday and sorry for not giving it my all right now. I’ll be fully back in the game tomorrow fo sho but didn’t want to completely leave y’all hanging!

[Andy92]

Talk to me about Summer. I have her pretty high in my list. Is it just her being quieter in this game that has you questioning her or is there something else to it?

I know she posted recently since you posted this, but just to respond with some thoughts.

Back on page 8, Summer:

Ubik’s response to Incon sounded extremely sincere and at this plint I feel he is a townie.

Micky seems to have a ton on his plate now so he will continue to be hard to read.

I’m not going to vote for anyone today, but at this moment Timo is high on my suspect list. <cue my demise>

Coupled with her latest post and other comments, Summer currently seems mostly suspicious of you and Timo. She seems to give Micky and Ubik a pass, but one of those could be a decoy and make the other one look plausible to be a teammate of her’s.

I’ll admit a lot of this is just instinct/my feel for the game, but I think a Micky/Silver/Summer team is plausible. I may not have all 3 correct but I’d be shocked if I missed them all.

[Andy92]

Edit: Double post

[Inconquerable]

About zaz, I think he's suspicious. But the fact that he chose Lotha is very interesting. If he is mafia, why pick the player that could him look 200%% more suspicious? Zaz is more clever than that. I'm not fully convinced, but it's weird. I think it's more likely that zaz really is the doc, and really wanted to save Lotha. Why he outed himself on day one is mind-blowing to me though.

That entire situation is weird, and I feel like there's more to it.

Can you explain the Lotha bit to me? Why do you think Lotha specifically dying at night vs. anybody else makes Cam look more suspicious? I feel like, given how the day ended, killing me would have implicated him way worse than killing Lotha, who he only mentioned having semi-good vibes about. Smart mafia keeps me around so Cam and I hash this out though... smarter mafia keeps us both because they know it's townie vs. townie and are going to just sit back and watch us vote out a townie?

UNVOTE: ZAZTHESPAZ

I'm not talking about the killing. I'm talking about him claiming he tried to save Lotha. If I were mafia, and I was gonna act like the doctor, I wasn't going to claim I was gonna (but didn't get to) save the person that just died. It's just dumb. The coincidence is too big. It's like when you lose a card game and afterwards check the deck and say something like: "ahhh; that was exactly the card I needed to win". Nobody's going to believe you, if you can't proof it.

Weird metaphor aside, I think if zaz was mafia, he'd be smarter than that, and pick another player, or only mention he got jailed. But if zaz really was a townie, I think he'd never had hinted his role like that, so I'm really conflicted about that entire situation.

Ok gotcha. That's why I'm having an issue with the "Dissident told me I was jailed" thing. Nobody can prove that. No matter what he did in the night phase, he almost had to come in here and claim that he was jailed or role blocked. Innocent or guilty, he kind of had to. I am leaning in the direction of him being honest, because a smart mafia team always keeps the two of us alive to hash this all out today, but I'm not fully out of the tunnel yet. I also have doubts about his posting outside of the doctor thing, just tone-based things and his post feeling very agenda-based.

Inconquerable: Took the role of townie leader. Seems very townie. Could be playing a really clever mafia game, but that could be said about every player I have positive feelings towards, I guess.
Summer: Not too sure how I feel about her. I think she's a townie. Then again, she's suspecting me, but I genuinely think that's just her being wrong.
Ubik: Seems to be playing a pretty regular townie game. Kind of like he was during the Purgatory game, except for the drunk code.
Andy: Somewhere in the middle of the pack for me. Absolutely not sure about him. I'd bet on townie. The zaz-Andy-Sansa situation was weird, but I think if he was mafia, he'd had kept that to himself, as mentioned by Ubik earlier.
Silver: She's been very absent. Which makes it hard to read her. She's at the bottom of my list.
Micky: Also at the bottom. I honestly think his post tried REALLY hard to make me look bad, and it looked like he went through my posts, copying literally everything and trying to find a reason why that specific post was suspicious. A townie also could've done that, I guess. But something about it feels like he tried a bit too hard. I do love him though.
Zaz: No clue anymore. I posted my thoughts of him above. If there was anybody who I thought was more suspicious, I'd try to keep him around one more night, but there's nobody I'm really sure of.

*edit because I messed up a quote

If Cam wasn't in the game, who would you vote for right now? And, bringing Cam back in, do you think that you pick could feasibly be in a team with Cam? I assume Micky or Silver would be your next choice. Is this list ordered?

[Inconquerable]

I feel like I should read all of the last couple pages to play and respond, but I don't really want to hahaha my migraine is finally starting to go away and I don’t want to bring it back. Did some solid skimming though so I think I got the jist of people’s opinions.

I still think Cam is innocent. Timo always makes me suspicious because he always plays a calm and distant game, but now my eye is definitely on Inky. The fact that I am so sure Cameron is innocent makes anyone questioning him suspicious to me. I know that’s kind of silly, but why focus so hard on someone accidentally giving away their vital role? I’m gonna leave that for now because I need to do some more reading, take some meds, and feed horses. But I hope everyone is having a lovely Monday and sorry for not giving it my all right now. I’ll be fully back in the game tomorrow fo sho but didn’t want to completely leave y’all hanging!

I think the bolded section is... well, bold. This feels like too much information. When you come back tomorrow can you please explain why you're so sure? Preferably with stuff from day one, because you mentioned this in the last day phase as well but you didn't seem nearly as gung-ho about it.

Aside from the game I do hope that your migraine clears up. I've been told that rubbing peppermint oil on your temples helps. <3

I know she posted recently since you posted this, but just to respond with some thoughts.

Back on page 8, Summer:

Ubik’s response to Incon sounded extremely sincere and at this plint I feel he is a townie.

Micky seems to have a ton on his plate now so he will continue to be hard to read.

I’m not going to vote for anyone today, but at this moment Timo is high on my suspect list. <cue my demise>

Coupled with her latest post and other comments, Summer currently seems mostly suspicious of you and Timo. She seems to give Micky and Ubik a pass, but one of those could be a decoy and make the other one look plausible to be a teammate of her’s.

I’ll admit a lot of this is just instinct/my feel for the game, but I think a Micky/Silver/Summer team is plausible. I may not have all 3 correct but I’d be shocked if I missed them all.

So I haven't voiced this (I don't think) before, but I have been thinking that if anybody in my town group could be somebody that I severely misread, it would be Summer. She has been playing like she usually does, but she has flip flopped on me a lot, and big time. She went from suspecting me, to thinking I was great, and now she's suspecting me again. I don't have an issue with it being me, but without like a thought progression between the posts, it's... jarring? Dropping the read on Timo without much explanation is strange too, I guess it's just based on how she views his play style.

One thing in the favour of Silver and Summer not being a team, in my view anyway, is THIS post from Silver. I don't think she brings Summer's name up and then backtracks on it immediately like that if they're a team. I think you have something there with the non-read on Micky.

Edited for bad spelling.

[Timotheus]

It's more or less ordered. It would be either Silver or Micky. It's kind of tied between them. I think I'd selfishly go with Micky, because he suspect's me.

About teams, I don't know. I think all of them could theoretically be in a team together.

I guess it's a good hunch from you that Micky and zaz aren't in a team together, but I'm not fully convinced that's the case.

Silver is very quiet, and could be in a mafia team with anybody for that reason.