The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

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Ubik
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Re: it looks even worse now I've posted it

Postby Ubik » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:14 am

My Rogue One enjoyment honestly dwindled quite a bit when I saw it again and noticed that Vader is actually doing a terrible job at the end :lol Like, they're literally carrying the disk a few metres in front of him, if he stopped slicing and dicing and just force pulled them all back, the rebels are done! No more Star Wars!

Tacos - I won't respond to every part of your post else this'll turn too long (edit - YEAH NO SHIT), but your point on undoing setups was an interesting one I hadn't heard yet. Made me think a bit, but on reflection, I completely disagree. Well, not in the sense that it's not something that happens, but rather that it's a problem. The exact same thing happens in Empire, and it's because in a 3 act heroic story, the second is about failure. Action is character, and it was important for the protagonists each to fail and fail hard in order to develop as characters. If Rey goes to Ahch-To, struggles a bit to get Luke to come back but eventually succeeds in getting him on the Falcon...what's changed about her? She got a bit of training, got a bit wiser and now is good at stuff other than lightsabers and force pulls? Luke's character doesn't develop in Empire because he meets Yoda on Dagobah, it's because he fails to complete his training, ignores two of the most renowned Jedi masters (after failing one of his main tests in the cave, and another in lifting his X-wing) and, after seeing his very first vision of the future, rushes off to save his friends. And what happens? He completely fails. Falls right into Vader's trap, loses his hand and gets told something that shatters his entire worldview. His friends end up saving him. That wasn't supposed to happen, that's not the successful and heroic conclusion of a film - so why does it work? Because the film's a second act in a three act story. You're supposed to fail. Rey fails to bring back Luke (she doesn't train herself, Luke clearly helps her tap into stuff she's not found before), but through what she's learned thinks she can convert Kylo and win that way. Clearly, she also fails there, though not before a great fake-out.

The WHOLE POINT about Rey in this film is that her identity holds her back, that because she's from nowhere, she's no-one. That in order to succeed she needs a big someone, a legend, to lead the way. The scene in the cave (which I thought was visually almost as beautiful as that hyperspace rip) was to me delivering that theme before Kylo spells it out - she asks who her parents are and sees herself. First time I saw it, I was really worried that rumour that she's another Anakin-style virgin birth of the force was about to play out. Second time it seemed much more obvious - you're the one responsible for who you are, not your parents. Anyway, point being, her dream of a "place in this story" through birth is shattered at the end of it, but it develops her character a lot more than having it confirmed would. Luke's finale (having been convinced into helping not by a young girl he's never met before, but by Leia and Yoda, which to me is more powerful in the story) is basically just handing over the ceremonial title of the film to Rey through one last act as a legend - the rest is up to her. She has to build it, no more hand-me-down lightsabers or ready made jedi masters.

And while I'm thinking about it, what's the Han and Leia plot strand in Empire about? The failure of the hyperdrive, and continued attempts to fix it, that then also fail. When they finally do get it fixed, it's at the cost of losing Han, and helping Vader lure Luke into the trap. And it still fails one more time. This is all just reflecting their continued failure to admit to their mutual feelings, only doing so right when Han's about to get frozen and taken away. Similarly, Poe and Finn's failure to stop the tracker betrays Holdo's evacuation. The point is that the failure contributes to character - Finn becomes a rebel fighting for something, not just a First Order deserter, and Poe realises that saving your own guys is the main aim of the game, not just blowing the other guys up (or leadership, in short).

I did chuckle at the link you made with Chewie and the porg though. That's also the funny thing about the porgs, they're bloody everywhere on that island and their sole interaction with our heroes is through annoying Chewie.

Man, this is why I thought it would be a bad idea to go through everything, when I start on about Star Wars I don't shut up :lol Props and sympathy to anyone that dragged themselves through all that... Also agree with all that Andy wrote about Luke above. Luke doesn't stay true to the idea of saving Vader throughout the throne room showdown, he only stops trying to kill him when he cuts off his robot hand.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (The Last Jedi SPOILERS Inside)

Postby cheesedip1 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:59 pm

I liked Luke's character arc but honestly no one else in the movie really had one. The plot was a mess. Most characters didnt have any growth. The movie ends at the same place it begins so honestly why even have the movie, other than for Luke's character arc.

Like, okay, Rey got tempted with the dark side of the force, with that scene with Luke. I thought "this is awesome, this is a good tension filled moment, i hope it pays off".


But then it was dropped, never to be brought up again. What the hell?? I guess those scenes were all for nothing. HUGE missed opprotunity there.

Movie was okay but ultimately a mess and disappointment. Episode 9 better be really good to make up for this.

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It's either money or physics...

Postby gbruin » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:06 pm

cheesedip1 wrote:The movie ends at the same place it begins so honestly why even have the movie, other than for Luke's character arc?

Why does anything ever happen? For the $$.

That's why I'm kind of bummed that they didn't at least take the time to make a movie that deserved the value of the franchise and the revenue this installment will make.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (The Last Jedi SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Andy92 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm

Anyone have thoughts on the Han Solo movie? I thought the trailer actually looked pretty decent. Oddly enough my biggest reservation for the film is their casting for Han. Young Lando seems pretty spot on.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (The Last Jedi SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Ubik » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:17 pm

Yeah I'd pretty much written it off given the rumours and the lack of any promotion so far, but I didn't mind the trailer at all. Obviously not hard to make a fantasy action film look good in a trailer these days, but still. Donald Glover and the droid has potential! Ehrenreich is definitely the biggest question mark for me too, and it's apparently one reason Lord and Miller went - he didn't work well with their improv style and it's easier to fire directors than stars.

Also - Weiss and Benioff getting a series of their own to develop? Interesting. Suggests, thinking about the Rian Johnson trilogy as well, that they're moving away from the one-off "Star Wars stories" releases and focusing on more episodic stuff away from the main saga, which I'm fully behind. I know loads of people are peeved at GoT after it had to diverge from the books but I'm still loving it myself, so looking forward to what they can do with this.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (The Last Jedi SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Andy92 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:13 pm

I kinda wish Weiss and Benioff were doing a live action TV show instead of more movies. We know Rian Johnson is doing a trilogy, and we still have Episode 9 to come out. There's 5 more movies at least counting the Solo movie. Another trilogy from different writers is probably going to start oversaturating the film market with these.

Since Disney is starting its own streaming service, live action Star Wars makes sense to me.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Andy92 » Sat May 26, 2018 2:12 am

Anyone else have a chance to see Solo yet? I was able to see it earlier tonight and loved it. I think the movie benefits from not having many expectations lol, but I really enjoyed what Ron Howard did with it.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Ubik » Sat May 26, 2018 9:10 am

Thought it was really well put together, I liked all the performances, especially Glover who got the Billy Dee voice down pat and managed to put his own personality on it as well (Ehrenreich also did as good a job as possible, I think), and the action set-pieces were all great. I'm not so hot on the kind of tick-box nature of some stuff, though, like it feels it needs to show you where he got his name, his gun, met Chewie, met Lando, found the Falcon and did the Kessel run (all within a few days, bar the name). A bit like Rogue One, where they did a whole film to explain why there happened to be a weakness in the Death Star, this was in danger of becoming one to explain that "actually, 12 parsecs was correct usage of the word!"

But no, overall I very much enjoyed myself. Not sure how much Howard had to do or how bad the Lord and Miller stuff was, but you wouldn't guess that there'd been hellish production issues from the final product. Kind of wish the Darth Maul thing wasn't in it (would've lolled if it was Snoke).
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Andy92 » Sat May 26, 2018 12:27 pm

I feel like the Darth Maul appearance could potentially setup a cameo of Han on Tatooine in either an Obi-Wan or Boba Fett movie. Darth Maul has a pretty good role in the cartoon universe, so I’m glad they finally had the guts to cinematically show that he survived the events of Episode 1. I mainly just want to see a Darth Maul/Obi-Wan showdown on screen to match what happened in Rebels. Now that you mention it though, having Snoke in that role (while it would’ve been hilarious) actually fits pretty well.

I had this stupid grin on my face when Han shot first.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Ubik » Sat May 26, 2018 1:16 pm

Andy92 wrote:I feel like the Darth Maul appearance could potentially setup a cameo of Han on Tatooine in either an Obi-Wan or Boba Fett movie. Darth Maul has a pretty good role in the cartoon universe, so I’m glad they finally had the guts to cinematically show that he survived the events of Episode 1. I mainly just want to see a Darth Maul/Obi-Wan showdown on screen to match what happened in Rebels. Now that you mention it though, having Snoke in that role (while it would’ve been hilarious) actually fits pretty well.

I had this stupid grin on my face when Han shot first.

Could do yeah, Obi-Wan would definitely make sense from that perspective. I'm losing track of what's been confirmed and what's just rumoured at this point, Mangold doing a Boba Fett one being the most recent thing going around. I think they need to get out of the original trilogy timeline and go somewhere new personally, but maybe that's the intention with the new episodic ones they're developing elsewhere, assuming they see the light of day.

I mainly didn't like it because it was about to get to the end of a Star Wars film with a single use of the force or a lightsaber, whilst still pulling off a good action film. And the weird CGI(?) face. But on the plus side, I was also sure they were going to shoe-horn in yet another dumb cameo of C-3PO and Artoo at some point and they didn't succumb to that.

Shooting first went completely over my head, good catch!
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Andy92 » Sat May 26, 2018 5:59 pm

[quote="Ubik"Shooting first went completely over my head, good catch!][/quote]
These were the references I can remember.

1. Han shot first
2. The Kessel run in 12 parsecs
3. 3P0 saying Han’s ship had a “peculiar dialect” - because L3 is the ship’s brain
4. The dice
5. “Someone’s putting together a crew on Tatooine” - reference to Jabba the Hutt
6. Lando pronouncing Han differently

I’m sure there’s plenty more but those are some cool things that stuck out to me.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Ubik » Sun May 27, 2018 1:31 pm

Not doing well at the box office. Not a total surprise as I'm pretty sure they've cut way down on marketing thanks to the costly reshoots, but I wonder if it may change their plans of doing more spin-offs for original trilogy characters. Demand for them might not be as great as they thought. Or they might just blame it on having the wrong release slot and a troubled production period I suppose.
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Re: The Star Wars Thread (SOLO SPOILERS Inside)

Postby Andy92 » Sun May 27, 2018 2:18 pm

I honestly think a lot of people staying home are the crowd that hated The Last Jedi. This movie is suffering from what came before it.
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